I find GD and SR players to be facinating

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Bma

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Senior Member

03-19-2013

That's cute. You criticise GD for having unique (wrong?) opinions when you have some pretty questionable opinions too.

'If there's anything my experience on dominion has taught me, it's that you really don't need an ADC to totally dominate the enemy team.'

LOL, comparing 2 different game modes that have completely different dynamics. Strong everything.

'The best thing I got away with was Leona + AP Kennen bot (pretending I was AD Kennen so my teammates wouldn't rage, and then pretend I had wrong masteries/runes once the game started). My friend and I won about 85% of those games.'

Please tell me more about your silver iv adventures. You say your anecdotal evidence like it means anything. It really doesn't at that elo.

'I made a thread a while back about how I genuinely believe that Zed is Ezreal 2.0.'

That's stupid. Exaggerating your point makes it 5000x easier to downvote you. Unlike Ezreal, who was beyond doubt the strongest, safest ad carry that invalidated other options (outside of graves/corki), Zed is nowhere near that level of strength. While I believe he may be overpowered, I'm not surprised u get downvoted at all.

As for Hivemind, no ****. At least 80% of the players in this game are bronze/silver, is it surprising at all that 80% of players are bronze/silver in GD?

??

?????

?????

Rest my case, rly.

PS, one doesn't write about ops in GD and expect upvotes. You could've written a thread about the Vi, Xin, J4 etc being overpowered and you would've gotten downvoted for it, even though they got nerfed next patch. U act like ur surprised l0l


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lbgsloan

Senior Member

03-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynmaker View Post
When you look at the points raised in that thread, and other stuff like Sejuani getting a visual update after all the **** that was spouted in their design defense after her launch, you have to realize that this a free game, that rose to where it is because it was free and easier to play when most other options were pay to play.

I honestly just sat and realized, when you add up things like the 'quality' of the game client, lack of balance in champions, old/new, lack of balance in items......

How many of you would pay for this experience ?

Free is going to attract exactly that kind of people that live in GD, so why be frustrated by that ? It really isn't worth the emotion.
Don't forget the single biggest WTF omission from the game still: an in-house replay system. Starcraft 1, a 10 year old game had support for this. Every one of Riot's competitiors have managed to have his important feature. A group of programmers made a 3rd party utility to do this for LoL, basically doing 90% of Riot's work for them. It's STILL in 'testing' after saying they were going to do it 2 years ago.

It really isn't a secret that Riot spends 99% of their development time on new champions and skins, and maybe take a glace at improving the client once a year. But it's free as you say, so they won the moba wars by default; and Valve appears to be afraid to take Defence of the Hats 2 out of beta status until Half Life EP3 gets released.


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

03-19-2013

I go to GD when I'm bored and want lulz.


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Chaosos

Senior Member

03-19-2013

Off replays:
1. Replays are on PBE
2. Issue is data infrastructure. League of Legends, in case you haven't heard, is the MOST POPULAR GAME ON THE PLANET. That means a lot of people play it. That also means a lot of people are going to be wanting data from the game for their replays. Figuring out how to manage that much traffic is actually difficult. The thing is they also don't want to compromise security to maphacks n ****, which is why it's not as easy as Starcraft. Blizz has a good maphack detection system, but they still exist because blizzard prioritized easy replays over optimal protection, which is the client not getting that data at all.'
3. Lolreplay with spectating is still used by such a small % of the people that WOULD use an official replay system that it's not worth comparing for data infrastructure, PLUS it's also prone to breaking every patch.
/offtopic


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Genericke

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bma View Post
LOL, comparing 2 different game modes that have completely different dynamics. Strong everything.
Dominion is a game mode with constant teamfighting. We regularly figure out who's OP and who's not months before SR figures it out themselves. From these constant teamfights I notice a lot of trends and combinations that work really well or fail horrifically. There've been many tournament SR matches where pros have run comps without ADCs and have been successful. This includes recent matches.
Quote:
Please tell me more about your silver iv adventures. You say your anecdotal evidence like it means anything. It really doesn't at that elo.
I've also noticed a lot of double bruiser bot lanes lately which have been stomping. I think it's actually very meaningful. Not a lot of the player base is at the gold+ level. On the other hand I've been queueing up with friends at various elos to play Leona with me (in normals and in ranked matches). Even if my strategies only work until partway through gold, it's really significant to know that 99% of the player base doesn't have the skill to make an ADC work. The take-away message is that if you aren't in the top % of the LoL player base, you're better off trying something else because you'll be more successful with it.

Quote:
That's stupid. Exaggerating your point makes it 5000x easier to downvote you. Unlike Ezreal, who was beyond doubt the strongest, safest ad carry that invalidated other options (outside of graves/corki), Zed is nowhere near that level of strength. While I believe he may be overpowered, I'm not surprised u get downvoted at all.
There were a lot of reasons as to why Ezreal became so strong despite receiving no buffs/nerfs to his kit. Most of them came from nerfs to all of the other ADCs bot lane, as well as a switch from sustain + farm bot lanes, to aggressive bot lanes. Ezreal was actually really weak against the sustain lanes if he himself had a partner that was also a sustain support. Carries like Trist/Graves/Kog/Vayne would scale much better with farm than Ezreal would because their steroids were superior to his own. On the other hand once aggressive kill lanes became popular in NA, Ezreal's true strength started to show - and everyone figured it out with the release of Pulsefire Ezreal.

The reason why I believe he might be Ezreal 2.0 (or even worse) is because riot actually nerfed him despite the attitude in GD being that Zed was UP. There was actually a long detailed thread arguing for why Zed was UP. There was also a long detailed thread asking for Ez buffs a while back too that GD agreed with. Zed's kit also has a lot of strength and safety in it. NA just hasn't caught on yet.

Quote:
As for Hivemind, no ****. At least 80% of the players in this game are bronze/silver, is it surprising at all that 80% of players are bronze/silver in GD?

??

?????

?????

Rest my case, rly.

PS, one doesn't write about ops in GD and expect upvotes. You could've written a thread about the Vi, Xin, J4 etc being overpowered and you would've gotten downvoted for it, even though they got nerfed next patch. U act like ur surprised l0l
I have no clue why you're being so hostile here. If I remember correctly more than 80% of the player base is from Bronze V - Silver I. Despite this GD has had some really good discussions. Just because someone isn't the best at the game themselves, doesn't mean they don't know a lot about it. Morello for example is actually at a surprisingly low elo for what his job is. While I don't agree with everything he does, I still think he has a lot of good knowledge about LoL.


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Bma

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Senior Member

03-20-2013

'Dominion is a game mode with constant teamfighting. We regularly figure out who's OP and who's not months before SR figures it out themselves. From these constant teamfights I notice a lot of trends and combinations that work really well or fail horrifically.'

Circumstantial evidence best evidence? The problem with this argument is that you selectively pick the champions where this theory works out, and not when it doesn't work out. Sure, you can probably mention champions like Kz, Jayce, which turned out to be overpowered in both modes. Meanwhile, Jayce still considered cheesecake on Dom. What about on SR? Balanced. How do you explain this discrepancy? Lulu, one of the most common bans in Competitive Dominion; SR, currently a popular pick, not overpowered by any stretch of the imagination. Thresh, commonly considered strongest support on SR, one of the weakest champs on Dominion. Just as you can name many instances where Dom and SR balance coincide, I can definitely name many instances against it. This in itself debunks your entire argument.

Furthermore, the only 'combinations' you'd actually witness are 4 person combinations, which granted, definitely exist on SR. However, Dominion has very few 5 man fights as opposed to SR and are more reminiscent of skirmishes. So yes, I would agree that Dominion is a reasonably accurate measure of how strong a champion is in a 1-4 v 1-4 battle. But I wouldn't agree that an overpowered champion on Dom is necessarily overpowered on SR, there's no real basis.

On top of this, comparing ad carry viability on Dominion to SR is still retarded when you consider that most Ad carries cannot take Flash in Dominion and if they did, the cd is too long in a game mode with such low respawn timers. Nor are there Supports to get AD carries through early-mid + protect them in teamfights late game. + Gold/Exp distribution is uneven in SR.

''If there's anything my experience on dominion has taught me, it's that you really don't need an ADC to totally dominate the enemy team'

This is still the stupidest sentence I've ever heard.

'There've been many tournament SR matches where pros have run comps without ADCs and have been successful.'

Most of which are cheese comps that are rarely repeated again. Your definition of 'many' is more like 'super small proportion of tournament SR matches'.

One of your main statements is (simplified) 'I don't know how people can argue that double bruiser isn't better than ad carry support'. Well cool, maybe it works for your elo, where people suck at ad carry and it's easier to play bruiser but it rarely works in an elo where people actually know how to play. You know what happens when you don't snowball bott lane and actually put the ad carry out of the game? You can't push cause u have no ad carry and u get outscaled because, well, they have an ad carry LOL.

Ezreal was in fact buffed before the PFE release that greatly decreased mana costs on his W and allowed him to dominate almost every single matchup because after he lands W enemy carry has no attack speed. He had the safest laning phase in the game on top of a pretty good scale into late game. He was overpowered because he had no counters as an ad carry, fitting into every comp, doing well vs every matchup, mix of ad/magical damage, high-end scaling as an ad carry and the ability to beat every single bruiser at the time in a 1v1. He wasn't weak vs Sustain lanes either, that's pretty much a myth. If Ezreal had realistic counters, he wouldnt've been fp every single game.

Nobody cares if GD has a thread on Zed being underpowered or overpowered. There are threads about every champion that has a questionable power level that say they're over or underpowered. So what if Zed has a thread saying he's underpowered? So what if a majority of the 1200 elo players on GD think he's UP? And hey, maybe he is underpowered at their elo. But I don't care about low elo play. I don't care if Leona + Ap Kennen is the best combo ever in Silver elo, because it's a non-factor at mine, where most game balance is actually directed.

The difference is that for every 1 morello you have 10000+ players who have no idea what they're talking about. You're one of them. Morello's reasoning is usually sound, unlike a lot of yours. He also has more data than any other comparable low elo player and a team of high-elo rioters to consult with. When I see you complain about GD and Sr players, I just look at the irony.


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Orphane

Senior Member

03-21-2013

I just wanted to point out that Jayce received nerfs to his mana costs, which mean jack all in Dominion but are fairly significant in SR. A fully farmed 6 item Jayce will still put out more damage in 1 W than most champs will in 2 seconds. He just has more difficulty getting to that point safely now.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-21-2013

If AD carries are pointless, why did EG have success with a double ADC comp (AD kog mid, varus bot) in the EU LCS a bit back?

And don't make me go down the list of champs and point out ones that needed fixes and buffs before they were good or OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbgsloan View Post
Don't forget the single biggest WTF omission from the game still: an in-house replay system. Starcraft 1, a 10 year old game had support for this. Every one of Riot's competitiors have managed to have his important feature. A group of programmers made a 3rd party utility to do this for LoL, basically doing 90% of Riot's work for them. It's STILL in 'testing' after saying they were going to do it 2 years ago.

It really isn't a secret that Riot spends 99% of their development time on new champions and skins, and maybe take a glace at improving the client once a year. But it's free as you say, so they won the moba wars by default; and Valve appears to be afraid to take Defence of the Hats 2 out of beta status until Half Life EP3 gets released.
Oh, the one they have on PBE? Yes, it was late. Apparently, Riot still clearly did enough right to become the biggest online game in existence without it.

And again, don't make me go down the list of all the non-champion/skin things they've been doing.


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