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Should Warmog's be left in Howling Abyss

Yes 56 65.12%
No 30 34.88%
Voters 86 .

Warmog in ARAM

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GrosPigeon

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Warrrrax:

ericl85, what level are you?

My sides hurt.
So you go manamune warmog on ashe?


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Puntyer

Senior Member

03-21-2013

well the simple reason for this is obvious in my last 20 or so arams i see an average of 3 to 7 warmogs being built . all the melee champs build at least 1 if not 2 or more . and recently ive seen about half the mages getting 1 as their survival item aswell

now alot of this is to counter how strong mages are with poke in aram .
but i think riots point is if mages are the problem then banchees and MR items should be built instead of str8 health stacking

if they add warmogs to the new map put BT back in aswell


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Natural Poise

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Didn't vote.

This is a tricky question because I don't think warmogs is the real problem. The real problem is a lack of other good options.

On PG most people are looking for a single defensive item to cover them for the whole game. In order for an item to do this, it needs to have either magic resist and armor (preferably more mr), or lots of hps. The only two items meeting this criteria are bulwark and warmogs. The tank or support usually already has the bulwark covered, leaving warmogs the only other option. On top of that it has the ever-so-useful regen, another thing that is otherwise difficult to itemize for, especially early.

Other choices:
-Sunfire has good hps, but magic resist is usually more needed than armor, so most of the time it's not the best pick. Randuins & locket basically same deal.
-Visage has a little hps and magic resist, but really only works if you also need cdr and have some other form of heal/regen.
-Veil similar, only viable as a sole defense item in certain situations.
-RoA and rylais have hps, but no other defense and only useful for AP champs.
-Frozen mallet has hps, but again just isn't quite enough to be your sole defense item on most champs.

Any of these items can work as your single defensive item but only in the appropriate situation, whereas warmogs will work for almost anyone.

I think the real question to ask is whether or not we want people to be able to get by with a single defense item.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Imo the real problem with Warmogs is when you build it in conjunction with other defensive items.

A champion with only a Warmogs isn't really that tanky, but a champion with Warmogs, Bulwark, and a Chainvest upgrade is going to be damn near impossible to kill.

Warmogs makes defensive itemization scale through the roof, and starts getting pretty ridiculous lategame when you can just jump on anyone, not have to worry about dying, and crush them through the power of base damages.
At that point in the game you pretty much **** on anything that is even remotely squishy without even trying.

I'm in favor of the removal of Warmogs.


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Beravin

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Tell you what, lets look at this a different way... Lets say it gets removed, fine, now I want a reasonable replacement that gives me enough in and / or out of combat sustain to be useful. Current sustain items take too long to be effective.


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Theungry

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
QETCMMMover:
it will hurt for champs who have actual scaling with health like mundo and garen, but hopefully tanks will now buy actual team items instead of **** warmogs


OMG so much this. I am so sick of seeing tanky champs buying Warmog's instead of an Aegis/Randuin's Omen that would mean so much more to the team's success.


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Theungry

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Beravin:
Tell you what, lets look at this a different way... Lets say it gets removed, fine, now I want a reasonable replacement that gives me enough in and / or out of combat sustain to be useful. Current sustain items take too long to be effective.


Get a Zeke's and give your whole team AD/Lifesteal while you get HP and CDR...


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
HaIfhearted:

A champion with only a Warmogs isn't really that tanky, but a champion with Warmogs, Bulwark, and a Chainvest upgrade is going to be damn near impossible to kill.

I'm still not convinced. You might as well ask to remove Deathcap (which actually is the most popular ARAM item). It's not that strong on its own, but with the other AP items your damage skyrockets.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Kalarepa:
I'm still not convinced. You might as well ask to remove Deathcap (which actually is the most popular ARAM item). It's not that strong on its own, but with the other AP items your damage skyrockets.

Err, I personally find Deathcap to actually be fairly overrated.
The only real damage items most mages actually need to hurt things are Sorcs and Void Staff.

Deathcap is more of a mid-lategame luxury damage item to amplify your existing ratios, but it tricks noobs into buying it first by looking cool and having a bunch of big numbers on it.

Just because something is popular doesn't always mean that it is optimal.
In this case, Void Staff has mathematically been proven to be far superior.


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
HaIfhearted:
Err, I personally find Deathcap to actually be fairly overrated.
The only real damage items most mages actually need to hurt things are Sorcs and Void Staff.

Deathcap is more of a mid-lategame luxury damage item to amplify your existing ratios, but it tricks noobs into buying it first by looking cool and having a bunch of big numbers on it.

Just because something is popular doesn't always mean that it is optimal.
In this case, Void Staff has mathematically been proven to be far superior.

I didn't say, Deathcap is great. I said, it's the most popular item. Imo, Warmog is a bit overrated as well, I would rather buy Sunfire for pushing power, extra AoE damage and armor for tower dives.
Also, you can't really mathematically prove, that Void Staff is better. It depends on enemies builds, your build, AP ratios on your attacks and few other things..