Void Staff + Abyssal Scepter...

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bwstickles

Junior Member

03-13-2013

If i were to buy a void staff and an abyssal scepter, which magic resist reduction would apply first? the -35% or the flat -20?
Because if someone has a MR of 70 and the void staff is applied first, then their magic resist would be at around 4
but if the Abyssal scepter was applied first then it would be 17.5...
I would assume that Abyssal's would be first because having a MR of 4 sucks haha but i would like to be sure ;o;


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Vuther

Senior Member

03-13-2013

The flat. Flat reduction is before everyone and everything.


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67chrome

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Generally with the penetration changes in this season % penetration is applied first - but debuffs are applied before you're own offensive modifiers, and Abyssal Scepter is applied via a debuff.

So Abyssal Scepter is applied first. When it comes to other magic penetration items, Void Staff is applied next, then all sources of flat magic penetration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
The flat. Flat reduction is before everyone and everything.
Debuffs are applied before anything, but when it comes to percentage and flat in debuffs or after debuffs percentage penetrations are applied first.


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Vuther

Senior Member

03-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Generally with the penetration changes in this season % penetration is applied first - but debuffs are applied before you're own offensive modifiers, and Abyssal Scepter is applied via a debuff.

So Abyssal Scepter is applied first. When it comes to other magic penetration items, Void Staff is applied next, then all sources of flat magic penetration.



Debuffs are applied before anything, but when it comes to percentage and flat in debuffs or after debuffs percentage penetrations are applied first.
How are "debuffs" are relevant to this conversation? Because flat reduction is still above % reduction.


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Afirias

Senior Member

03-14-2013

As 67chrome stated. Percentage is accounted for first now then flat pen.

For some reason I remember reading that even though the aura is applied on a target the -20 mpen isnt applied till spellhit. I am not sure if that is true or not. None-the-less its either going to go -20MR > -35% > -flat mpen (runes/guise/sorc boots) or -35% > -Flat penetration (abyssal guise sorc boots and runes.)


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67chrome

Senior Member

03-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
How are "debuffs" are relevant to this conversation? Because flat reduction is still above % reduction.
Percent reduction is applied before flat reduction, were have you been with the season 3 changes? I mean, Black Cleaver changing the tanky meta to be HP based over resistance based? It's a pretty big deal, and lots of people have been talking about it. Flat before percentage was only true in seasons before this current one.

As for debuffs - it's an order of operations kind of thing. If a champion has a -10 armor debuff, they have -10 armor before anyone attacking them can apply their own armor penetration modifyers against the target debuffed with -10 armor, so the target debuffed with -10 armor has effectivly 10 less armor before they're attacked and before other sources of armor penetration are taken into account.

Which is especially relevant, because percentage penetrations are typically applied before flat penetrations - so in the case Nidalee and Nausus both apply debuffs, Nidalee's % armor reduction debuff will be applied first, then Nausus's flat armor reduction debuff. The someone attacking with a Last Whisper and Brutalizer will apply the Last Whisper penetrations before the Brutalizer penetrations.

Which is especially relivant to this question, because the answer comes down to the order of when debuffs are applied compared to stat bonuses, not the order in which percentage and flat are applied.


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Vuther

Senior Member

03-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Percent reduction is applied before flat reduction, were have you been with the season 3 changes?
It's not. % penetration got a leg up in the application order, reductions remained the same - as in, flat reduction is first. % reduction was never changed, the changes to Black Cleaver just made a % reduction much more available and not reduced in effectiveness in combination with Last Whisper.


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BaronVonPwny

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Senior Member

03-15-2013

Reduction always occurs before penetration, no matter whether each is flat or %. Hence Abyssal will always be before Void Staff despite the changes.