Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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StriderXplosive

Recruiter

03-13-2013

Ok, So let me throw in my 2 cents in the bucket. I bet many of you have come up with great suggestions and I might be repeating someone but I ain't gonna go through 50 pages.


@ Dr. Lyte/ Team:

Why not make 2 seperate GAME MODES for "Que up for a role" and "How it is now". This I think would solve the issue. People who don't mind waiting or picking a certain role and playing it (YES EVEN SUPPORT <3) play in the mode. And the people who don't like the idea just go to the game mode that it is now.

Why not try it out in PBE? You can make ROLE SELECT RANKED Mode or you can Play Regular old draft. Is it the funds? Can you not pay for a separate server (or whatever you have the game mode data on)? (I am not being sarcastic I want to know if that is an issue). This way everybody is happy I believe! We have the people who don't mind playing any role on one side and we have the people who want to lock in to a role and not have someone fight them for it!!!

Hope to hear an answer =P.


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Dumey

Junior Member

03-13-2013

I feel as if you should implement the Vote-Kick system, but don't call it a vote-kick system. It's a real simple change, but there are two simple things to have in which would work. The vote is instead just a general Disband vote. It does the exact same thing, but makes players feel less manipulated by the team, and makes it a more 'positive' decision.

But then you have to think, what's the point of disbanding if everyone just immediately goes back into queue? You've solved nothing at that point! The way to implement this is to have a Report feature in champ select. I know that you guys have wanted to not focus on more negative approaches, but it gives the players a little bit of 'security' in the lobby, to be able to just hit that button when someone was being a ****** in champ select. It's hidden, so it's not as if you're straight up flaming someone. Then the Disband is general, though the reason is probably obvious to the troll/toxic player.

The only REAL problem with that is that there would be no penalty for consistently trolling champ select and forcing Disbands. No dodge timers or the such, which would probably be implemented in a true vote-kick system.

For the other Riot-presented options, I do not like Dungeon Finder or Prisoner's Island.

I AM however, for the inclusion of pop-up information about players. It doesn't even have to be anything except player-chosen material. You go into your profile, say your favorite champs, and maybe what champs you like to see on your team. Champs you'd like to see banned. Role preference. Done deal.

Then once that's done, I REALLY like the idea of a Captain's Mode. However, Captain's Mode would have to give a little more time in picks so that players that aren't the Captain could have time to talk and make suggestions.

But then, I have one last request for information shown. Could there be a 'counter' for what role you've played in the past ten games or so? Just like a Match History, but it simply states what you've been playing a lot.

In the hypothetical situation of a Captain's Pick, let's say that my displayed champions to play in ranked are Fizz, Caitlyn, and Taric. This obviously puts me in good position to play a number of different roles. Being that Taric is on that list, it would be easy to assume that I actually get 'picked' into Support by my Captain a majority of the time, simply because other players statistically won't have support in their preferences. While this is okay in a short term, it'd be great to show "Hey, I've played Support in my last 6 games, I'd really like to play a carry this time."

While I've got the long post, I'll also throw in support for the idea of a pre-pick lobby to talk with your team members and get some things solidified. Though that has the easy problem of taking way too long to get into games.


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Sylvr

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

I haven't had time to read through the entire thread- just the red posts through the Dev Tracker, but an idea that was put forth a while ago that I didn't see quoted was a Start-up note to be displayed upon entering Champ Select.

It's extremely simple. You just type out a note that displays as soon as everyone hit the lobby. Players could (and likely would) use the note to call out what roles they'd prefer to play, what roles they'd rather avoid, and even what to ban.

I don't see a downside to it.


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Josephmack

Senior Member

03-13-2013

[QUOTE=Kask;35560003]The problem is in the players in my opinion.

People put so much emphasis on blindly following the Meta that people are aggressively attacking each other pre-game in order to get the role they enjoy.

One of the aspects of LoL I enjoy is that there are no required roles. You don't have to have a healer, or a tank in order to win. Sure it might make it easier some times but I enjoy that freedom of choice. I enjoy being able to build any champion any way I want and I enjoy having the freedom to play any mode I want.

These roles that exist are not defined in the game and I don't believe they should be defined.

I believe what makes LoL truely unique is that there are no defined roles. There are guidelines for a team, but nothing is set in stone. It upsets me when people try to demand others to follow these guidelines to the T. Especially in solo que.

This.


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Kijitow

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I'm extremely excited to see this as a topic of discussion.

As a support main, I am giddy at the prospect of 2 being a reality. In fact, I'd probably be playing right now if it was.


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vats3

Senior Member

03-13-2013

when i first started thinking of how to reform champ select afew things came in mind

first was the vote to kick system but different in alot of ways, in my version you start up a blind vote if a majority says yes then you have a 20 min dodge penalty but separated across everyone who said yes, so you are agreeing to a penalty by saying yes but you also are safe from a large penalty from completely dodging and to stop from people with premades going in with a majority of the vote, only the leader of the premade can vote and it would equal the full group members divided by 2, now to combat people using this just because someone picked a champ they don't want to go against it would also be no longer allowed after first pick your team

second idea kinda like the second idea given also but abit different, have call out that you can use to call lane and role like you hit a button by your name you get "top" "mid" "bot" and "jungle" to pick from then you hit the next one "adc" "tank" "support" "ap carry" "ad carry" "brusier" "other and "draven"(witch is the same as a do it all button) and also have a number by the roles witch could keep track of who called what first. So lets say you go in a game and when you get in there you set yours for mid and you notice a 2 by it saying you where second then you can talk with who called mid ask him nicely to change and ideally he will or you will, this may not help all that much in stoping toxic behavior but other then make things easier for those who are involved to decided who is in the right and who is in the wrong

next have the ability to report in que, it may not stop the person currently "trolling" but it will stop future trolling while you may still have to dodge this one game future games may not include as much dodging. With including chat logs for the tribunal a troll should be pretty obvious and can be dealt with accordingly

and lastly a combination of them all. With a "vote to dodge" with something similer to a report you pick out your reason, if it was a player you have a place to say what he did wrong it gets passed around the team to say yes or no and add anything they think needs to be said, then when it goes to the tribunal with you see what role and lane everyone picked and you can look at the log and see if this summoner really was just completly trolling and if they are toxic to the que


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swan2swan

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Proposition: What about a Color Wheel?

*see attached image*

Color code:
Top: Red
Jungle: Yellow
Mid: Green
ADC: Orange
Support: Blue

In every summoner's profile, he/she could adjust their "Preference Wheel" so that the colors are matching. While the numbers here are definitely skewed, the point would be that Dyrus has most of his points in top, symbolizing immediately that he prefers top; TheOddOne has half of his yellow, showing that he has a 50% preference for playing jungle. Reginald likes mid, Chaox takes ADC, and xSpecial is clearly stating that he wants to support (one could force some sort of balance, though...like a 70% maximum...so that a game doesn't have five people with 100% green-mid labels).

These wheels would be adjustable between matches, so you can decide beforehand what role you really want. I don't know if they would factor into the matchmaking system (could a program be made that "reads" these and tries to match a complete set of colors?), but they would at least give people a clear example of what's going to come in the game. Heck, when summoners accept a match, their little person could pop up with the colors first so that you could have an idea (this would have to happen at the end, though, so that you couldn't see the colors of your opponents, only your teammates').

It's immediately readable, completely optional, and it could simply be added on to what we have now.


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BrAiNdAnCeR

Junior Member

03-13-2013

I want option #1 and #2 implemented.

I would go with #3, but apparently when you go AFK a lot in Bronze Tier due to trolls feeding the enemy team in my series while they keep dying and their inability to surrender due to the "Bro do you even lift? / Just Play Fa**ot" comments along with the TROLLING IN THE TRIBUNAL- I have been banned and deemed toxic. So all I've learned from League of Legends, is trying to do the right thing will only get my account suspended. As if wasting an hour of my time in a 1 vs. 5 position isn't mind numbing enough in a ranked game that is part of a series for promotion.

I also think the minimum amount of champions should be raised in order to compete. You should have 3 champs of every type and at least 5 Masteries. I can't tell you how many times I've been in Lobby and 4 people say they can only Jungle - so they all yell at each other and pick their jungler and comment YOLO in the lobby- forcing me to back out and lose points. It's ELO fixing on a new level IMO.


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StriderXplosive

Recruiter

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by swan2swan View Post
Proposition: What about a Color Wheel?

*see attached image*

Color code:
Top: Red
Jungle: Yellow
Mid: Green
ADC: Orange
Support: Blue

In every summoner's profile, he/she could adjust their "Preference Wheel" so that the colors are matching. While the numbers here are definitely skewed, the point would be that Dyrus has most of his points in top, symbolizing immediately that he prefers top; TheOddOne has half of his yellow, showing that he has a 50% preference for playing jungle. Reginald likes mid, Chaox takes ADC, and xSpecial is clearly stating that he wants to support (one could force some sort of balance, though...like a 70% maximum...so that a game doesn't have five people with 100% green-mid labels).

These wheels would be adjustable between matches, so you can decide beforehand what role you really want. I don't know if they would factor into the matchmaking system (could a program be made that "reads" these and tries to match a complete set of colors?), but they would at least give people a clear example of what's going to come in the game. Heck, when summoners accept a match, their little person could pop up with the colors first so that you could have an idea (this would have to happen at the end, though, so that you couldn't see the colors of your opponents, only your teammates').

It's immediately readable, completely optional, and it could simply be added on to what we have now.
Not a bad idea. But what about when ppl have MID or any other role similar? same thing will happen, they will fight for mid.


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BlackIronBeast

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I think that implementing the meta into solo/duo queue is favorable towards reducing the current problems we face with it. As for outside the box thinkers and innovative strategy, although possible, it is highly unlikely that anything groundbreaking will be executed by 5 strangers in a game without verbal communication--in the event that there is some outside the box thinking that won the game, would it be memorable? Was it the innovative strategy that one? Was it luck? Did it depend on a mistake that the other team made that was then capitalized on and may not work in every game? Implement the meta in solo/duo queue because there are still blind queue, custom games, and ranked teams to try out and implement innovative strategy and meta breaking ideas.

Once the meta is solidified in solo/duo queue (but NOT ranked teams, custom games, and blind queue), vote kicks are that much less likely to be abused. If there are 4 players in agreement for each of their roles that fit the meta but you've got your 5th begging to go Melee ADC on Taric and refusing to cooperate, the other 4 people have every right to kick them--that player then has every right to try that role in blind queue, custom, or ranked teams with their friends. It is possible yet unlikely in my opinion that 4 people would all happen to be in agreement that say Ezreal makes a bad ADC and that all four of them would vote to kick the guy who wants to be Ezreal as ADC. This also goes for other questionable yet meta fitting roles (Support Nidalee, AP Taric Top, Jungle Gangplank, End of Thinking Capacity).

Now that there is a solidified meta, a role selecting queue can be used in solo/duo queue only. However, since there are far more than 5 "classes" that categorize all of the champions, the roles selected would be Top, Mid, Jungle, Support, and ADC. Only select Mid and the queue will most likely be lengthy. Select support and it will probably be immediate. Select multiple roles and it will also be quick but increase the chances that the Support role is selected. This system combined with a vote-kick prevents the success of a troll queuing for support and then selecting Yi with smite and revive--or even selecting an ADC because it will say by their name that they queued for support and when everyone else sees that they're breaking their contract, it's very easy to kick them.

I lol'd at prison island. Of course this should never happen but if it did, track their IPs. You cannot escape from prison island!!! There is no behavior improvement--it isn't purgatory, it's a life sentence!

I never want to know the success and failure rates of my teammates and I do not wish to share my own match histories, either. Simply put, it is useless and misleading information. It assumes that the player won their games with a certain champion/role BECAUSE of that particular player's skill and completely disregards what their team did/didn't do as well as the enemy. For example, if you look at my match history, you might see a game where I won with Shen and went 0/0/3. It was a short match. You could say I did well; I assisted my team, I didn't feed, and I didn't KS. However, what it does not tell is that I didn't hold my lane and I missed every single taunt in that game--luckily, my team carried me. So, should I play Shen top again based on this information? Absolutely not. it's extremely misleading. Now on the other hand, I have lost every game that I've played as jungle Nocturne. Does this mean I shouldn't play jungle Nocturne? Absolutely not. Coincidentally, unfortunately, and ironically, every game that I have played jungle Nocturne, there has always been a person who went AFK on my team and the game ended in a rather close 4v5 because I made some really good plays as a jungler--not to mention that Nocturne is the champion who I feel most comfortable jungling with if I am even going to perform that role at all. Again, my match history information is misleading. That said, selecting roles/champions that I feel comfortable/uncomfortable with is much more accurate.

Time is an issue. It cannot be infinite because that could clearly be abused. If it is increased in champion select, it would sacrifice queue times but does increase the likelihood of successful team match ups because it decreases the stress and pressure of selecting things quickly.

These are my best design attempts at fixing the current problem. Can a game be designed around real life context? The short answer is no. Not anymore than anything else can be created or designed around other people. Only an individual can deal with their own personal issues--nobody/nothing else. Alcohol should not be consumed when having a bad day as it amplifies toxic behavior. That doesn't mean that there's a good excuse for it and there are consequences for such behavior.