A simple fix to Akali! Really, just one small change.

First Riot Post
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UrGey6666

Senior Member

03-11-2013

riot erfing her stealth which has plenty of counterplay as it is means you are catering to the horrible bronze elo bads


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Jaceive

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Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
I don't want to put any words in his mouth but you are right Xypherous is extremely critical of free stats but the reason is deeper than "free stats are bad". There are some deeper design concerns as I see it with an overabundance of free stats.

An abundance of free stats cause a bunch of complications and risks when combined with the item system. As one of Xypherous's key focus points is on the item system he is well of aware of these interactions and the problems and benefits they can provide. This is why historically a lot of Fighters with free stats suffer from being extremely tricky to balance and why they are often able to better use items that are meant for other classes.

The bigger issue as I see it is that stats often are not accompanied by gameplay. Lee Sin is the classic example of this. That man was given a lot of really cool gameplay but also a ton of raw stat increases. These stat increases didn't really enhance the experience of playing Lee Sin or against him but did result in us having to nerf his overall power on a couple of occasions. Generally this is why we nerf free stats instead of elements more crucial to the gameplay of a character. The end result may be to hit the "free stats" but the goal is always improving gameplay.

I don't want to make it seem like ALL base stat increases are fundamentally flawed or even bad though. A lot of them are great and actually enhance gameplay. Rammus having so much mitigation in DBC allows him to be a tank and dive into the fray which makes him a more fun character, Tristana gets to fulfill her role as an ADC because her massive AS steroid lets her outscale almost any character in the game and allows her to micro her basic attacks and positioning on a crazy level.

The massive Armor/MR bonus from Akali's shroud is in a weird spot where I do feel the mitigation bonus does add a little bit of gamplay as it does functions as her de-aggro mechanic in AoE and teamfight scenarios. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it tbh. It's something I'd have to talk over with the other designers, I'd also appreciate any opinions or comments from you guys as well.
How do you feel Xerath's passive fits into this? I'm not going to argue that it's not a good or strong passive (because it is), but it doesn't seem to emphasize his role as "siege caster" very well, and when you play that role effectively his passive doesn't really do anything for you.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primevil View Post
That's how this thread sounded to me, in a poorly deceiving way.

I wonder if Riot is actually interested in making this game "balanced" to all skill level players rather than make they learn how to improve in-game skills.

AFAIK there's champions with 56/55% win ratio while Akali has 51%.

Get your facts straight, Riot.
1. Singed and Elise are getting nerfs (higher win rate champs)
2. Solo queue win rates vs tournaments and real balacing
3. these statistics are a small sample and not always accurate


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That Other Guy

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Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
The massive Armor/MR bonus from Akali's shroud is in a weird spot where I do feel the mitigation bonus does add a little bit of gamplay as it does functions as her de-aggro mechanic in AoE and teamfight scenarios. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it tbh. It's something I'd have to talk over with the other designers, I'd also appreciate any opinions or comments from you guys as well.
I'm not concerned with the free stats as they serve as a way of making her not completely countered by pinks. What concerns me is that the .5sec before she restealths doesn't give you enough time to actually target her thereby allowing her to burst and disappear again easily with no consequences or counterplay unless she's foolish enough to stand around and autoattack.

This basically turns her shroud into a "if you don't have a pink stay away from here or you'll just get f***ed in the face for free" instead of a "if you fight me here you're going to fight on my terms and I'll have the advantage" Therefore the time to restealth should be increased IMO, by how much should be determined by internal testing.


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RakeZ3

Junior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
1. Singed and Elise are getting nerfs (higher win rate champs)
2. Solo queue win rates vs tournaments and real balacing
3. these statistics are a small sample and not always accurate
what about rumble he has the highest win rate and he isnt getting touched at all


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Kvothe Kingkiler

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Her stealth really is fine I have probably played over 500 akali games or more and I cant tell you how many times ive seen other akalis dropped when they shroud expecting to be safe till you drop a pink in the middle of her shroud.
her Stealth does have clear and easy counters
Diana reveals her
Lulu pixy reveals her
Pink wards
Oracles
Lee Sin
and those are just champs that reveal her not even listing the many champions that counter her in lane
I think akali is finaly in a good play shes been seen in some LCS games not many and only winning half of them not remotely OP if Riot nerfs assasins for casaul level of play then they shouldnt add a class to the game that's not suppost to be viable at competive level of play.


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IS1f58c77b838d09

Member

03-11-2013

OH MY GOD!!!! AKALI IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER ASSASSINS!!!!!
PANIC!!!! OH MY GOD PANIC!!!!!!!

If anything, her damage should be reduced slightly (only slightly) and her smoke cloud should be buffed to only show her black outline when revealed.

With over 300 Akali games, ever try playing her at above 1500 Elo? It's not fun. Their support will buy multiple pinks just to shut you down, should you start snowballing.

Also, for the LoLking citers, her winrate has always been around 50%. What's the problem? Stop crying.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrGey6666 View Post
riot erfing her stealth which has plenty of counterplay as it is means you are catering to the horrible bronze elo bads
He said that they may remove the delay when she leaves the AOE. That is a nerf, but it is also something that makes her W as it should be. You should only get the advanteage when you are in the AOE.
The same thing was removed from Darius ult right after his release.
Rengar still has it on his passive, but it got reduced so that he can't abuse it as much (double jump).


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Sturmhard

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaolla View Post
that's the thing with assassin chars. you need to balance safety and power.

akali has an abundance of both. allowing her to jump in and kill people easily with no real risk.

tone down her power and she can jump in and harass at no risk
tone down her escapes and she can jump in and kill at SOME risk

option 2 is really better, because it allows her to still fill her role
i dont get this.....there is a power spike of hers after lvl 6 where you have to play carefully and keep a pink ward ready for some time. but if properly shut down, i never found her to be a problem (i played akali for a good while, maybe thats why i know how tom play vs her).

all she really needs is the removal of the cooldown refresh on her ult upon kills and assists and instead a little bit shorter cooldown for restacking.


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RakeZ3

Junior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS1f58c77b838d09 View Post
OH MY GOD!!!! AKALI IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER ASSASSINS!!!!!
PANIC!!!! OH MY GOD PANIC!!!!!!!

If anything, her damage should be reduced slightly (only slightly) and her smoke cloud should be buffed to only show her black outline when revealed.

With over 300 Akali games, ever try playing her at above 1500 Elo? It's not fun. Their support will buy multiple pinks just to shut you down, should you start snowballing.

Also, for the LoLking citers, her winrate has always been around 50%. What's the problem? Stop crying.
wut people at 2500 elo dont buy pink wards u expect some 1500 people to do it