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Madreds Razor way outshines Spirit Stone

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Orbital Nuke

Recruiter

03-07-2013

It seems like the spirit stone is a pretty crappy choice for jungling compared to Madreds razor. A lot of game suggested jungling builds seem to have spirit stone routes, but people just ignore them for the razor.

Stats
In fact the only reason you would want to build up into the stone is if you were interested in the upgrades for the spirit stone. The problem with this is that it severely gimps your jungling speed compared to the razor, and has ZERO utility for ganking. Life and Mana regen don't help a gank like the bonus armor does. Besides, what good is that extra life and mana regen when you take more damage and have to cast more spells to kill the same camp. Even if the life regen and mana regen are more cost efficient than the 10 damage, they passive isn't nearly as valuable.

The Passive
If you do the math, there is NO way that the extra 10% damage (20% over madreds) is as good bonus damage is nearly as good.

Lets say a champion has a .6 attack speed. In 10 seconds they will get 6 attacks, averaging 1.5 bonus procs or 450 damage. To get a bonus 450 damage on the madreds, I would have to do 2250 in damage. In 6 seconds that is very hard to do until the very end game, and that is including spells and attack. Certain champions who can front load attack speed like Udyr, Xin Zhao, or Warwick get even more benefit as a large target will go down so quickly that it is in smite range almost immediately.

The early game upgrades
While some people definitely want to build the different spirit stone upgrades, you cannot rush them because your jungling speed is gimped compared to someone who got the razor. Even if the different upgrades have more stats, (ones that are useful in ganking), they mean a overall slower upgrade speed, so that a player with the razor (or lantern) benefits more in the long run.

I don't have any real solutions to this. I wonder if the spirit stone doing 20 true damage to jungle monsters wouldn't help a little bit. But the difference is very pronounced, especially low level, where it would be better to get a razor on karthus than a spirit stone.


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MrSimplyDiva

Member

03-08-2013

I always get spirit stone x)


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Armageddal

Senior Member

03-09-2013

It has slower clear times, but gives you health regen and mana regen, and builds into three items that are actually useful to almost every jungler in the game. Razors only build into Wriggle's, which is a terrible item to get on AP junglers or pure tank junglers.


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rootsoflust

Senior Member

03-12-2013

yup, imo the problem with razor is Wriggle's is to weak. It only combos well wit Lee and other champs the benefit from the extra vision but none that i can think of can use it as well as Lee.


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PhailRaptor

Adjudicator

03-12-2013

Madred's Razor may be a better item for farming jungle monsters, but Spirit Stone upgrades into better items for late game teamfights.

Except maybe Lizard Spirit. The item just feels weird.


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Irelia Bot

Member

03-12-2013

If this were really true Shyvana would still be a dominate tier one jungler. It might be alright early/mid game but late game it doesn't really provide much use.

I really feel like it needs to combine with a slightly reduced cost and stats Wits end to become a viable choice on more then a couple junglers.


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Huibrizzle

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I totaly disagree. I have stopped buying razor. I really like the spirit stone, I don't have to buy more than 2 pots after my first back (just so I can regen hp b4 a gank) it is more reliable than razor I don't have to go oh **** blue is at 500hp better not attack again incase it procs. Lizard king is an awsome item when combined with red buff.

You just need to rush the item, skip boots those were op in season 2 not in season 3. You can have lizard king with boots 1 and a giants belt or phage very quickly even with no hanks and be ready for mid game.

The item does give you a DMg increase vs mobs I don't see the issue


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BlackJubilee

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Buying the razor is good for your early game, but it hinders your late game.


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BaronVonPwny

Senior Member

03-15-2013

As said - Razor is only good if you have the attack speed to back it up. It is an early game clearing item and has no purpose late game.
Spirit stone is for tanks or ap junglers who use abilities to clear - they don't want to have to sit there hitting at monsters for 50 damage hoping for procs, and they use its upgrades to transition to late game easier than the 'carry' junglers who can use razor effectively.
They are well made so far and don't need change. Right now only Wriggle's needs changing, and possibly the elder lizard item.


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Dark Kuno

Senior Member

03-15-2013

The razor is superior in most situations for jungle clearing, however the options the spirit stone upgrade into have a vastly superior affect on overall champion performance in the mid-late game.

It also depends on the specific champion in question as well. Amumu and Kayle for example will get more out of Spirit Stone than he will out of razor were J4 and Jax will get more out of razor even if none of these champs ever upgrade beyond razor/spiritstone.


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