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Most of the kids on this forum.

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Sereg Anfaug

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
PrincessPopsicle:
Will disagree with anything that says anything is wrong with anything, no matter how sensible the opposition. Riot is perfect, the game is perfect, and no matter what you are wrong if you think otherwise.

Welcome to r/leagueoflegendscirclejerk. Seriously. If you can't be open minded and have a civil discussion, why are you here? Just to affirm yourselves over and over??


Most of the kids on this forum will disagree with anything that says they are wrong about anything, no matter that the opposition is a Rioter. They are perfect, their behavior is perfect, and no matter what you are wrong if you think otherwise.

Welcome to r/leagueoflegendscirclejerk. Seriously. If you can't be open minded and have a civil discussion, why are you here? Just to affirm yourselves over and over??


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Safearra

Senior Member

03-07-2013

o i most definitely do and i stand by everything that smart amazing man said now that i got my 3 accounts and my main ( lower elo than the two but first account) is still banned i don't really care
because im still playing still having fun and enjoying myself all the same i just understand how serious the report button is now i can end league forever by a click of the hand because well, i just didn't agree with them. troll report or not if 5 other people "didn't agree with him he will probably be banned"

but it seems like you guys do seem to be abrasive,harsh,mean,united ect (would you not lie alot of things people say on forums people don't cant even say in game) if there was a report button next to the down vote button this game would be madness all im trying to say is this i believe we should come up with a solution to the problem that isn't "ban everyone that appears" in tribunal or do you like to "ban everyone" or majority of people approach i think there is a solution that can make everyone pretty much happy out there. people just need to COMPROMISE


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Xianio

Senior Member

03-07-2013

The guy doesn't want a civil discussion. When given the option to fight with someone over something petty or actually engage with the point he himself wanted to talk about, he picks the petty argument.

Look at his other post about the "failing" tribunal. The guy writes a out a huge wall of text and instead of even considering the answer I provided him (another wall of text) he gets caught up in a petty name calling contest. Ironically, exactly the type of behaviour I was talking about in the post I made.


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Safearra

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Xianio:
The guy doesn't want a civil discussion. When given the option to fight with someone over something petty or actually engage with the point he himself wanted to talk about, he picks the petty argument.

Look at his other post about the "failing" tribunal. The guy writes a out a huge wall of text and instead of even considering the answer I provided him (another wall of text) he gets caught up in a petty name calling contest. Ironically, exactly the type of behaviour I was talking about in the post I made.


actually his last post was my favorite i found it to not be bad maybe you should read through it


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Xianio

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
You called me a dick for no reason, bro...I'm done talking to you. This is to facilitate constructive conversation. Take your animosity elsewhere.


This one?


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Safearra

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Sereg Anfaug:
Most of the kids on this forum will disagree with anything that says they are wrong about anything, no matter that the opposition is a Rioter. They are perfect, their behavior is perfect, and no matter what you are wrong if you think otherwise.

Welcome to r/leagueoflegendscirclejerk. Seriously. If you can't be open minded and have a civil discussion, why are you here? Just to affirm yourselves over and over??


i don't think anyone said that they were perfect i don't think "MOST" of the kids come here because they think they were saints

what i do believe is most people come here in hopes that someone will read there WHOLE case and (agree)/disagree with MATURE TEXT backing the post maybe someone cant believe because i called garen gay or downie Darius thats a infamous instapunish

i personally didn't even know you could instapunish according to the summoner code rules and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnkalhOdOs8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnkalhOdOs8) this is all the typical person know who watches the weekly update patches on there client and even the person didn't instapunish after all that teemo said, instead he "toggled" to other cases to see if the attitude continued.


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Xianio

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Which post did you mean Safearra? (your comment before this one)


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Safearra

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Xianio:
Which post did you mean Safearra? (your comment before this one)


frustrated with a failing tribunal read through it id say its worth it if you have a open mind to things


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Xianio

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Ya, that's the topic I was referring to. Princess decided to keep up a petty argument instead of engage with the topic at hand. I'm referring to the post I had made - this is it (it's to bad it was never looked at )

Quote:
Okay, to answer this text wall of an opening post.

First as an opening remark:
OP, in the future, you should try and avoid setting yourself up for a heated argument when you're claiming to be looking for intelligent discussion. The very title of this thread forces anyone who disagrees with it to read everything you've written in a negative tone. You've set the field and ensured that your article, no matter how well written and balanced, will be read with a combative mindset.

If you want unbiased, thoughtful responses you need to avoid emotionally charging the content you create. The fact that it's the title that's so emotionally charged makes this even worse.

Onto the actual content

Lets open with some -facts- that MUST be stated early on:

The Tribunal is only a problem for 2.2% of the active accounts in LoL. This DOES mean that it's more than 2.2% of all players but it DOESN'T mean that every account ever made is counted. Only accounts that have been played in the past few months are considered active - even smurf accounts for players with 3-4 accounts are often considered to be "inactive."

That 2.2% CAN feel like a lot of people. It's several thousand people, probably upwards of 10,000 people who have been affected by the Tribunal.

Of those affected (lets use my made up number for now) 10,000, 5,000 will not return to the Tribunal ever again. They will never be banned, never be warned again.

This STILL MEANS that highly negative players can impact a large portion of the community. The average permabanned player will have interacted with around 11,000 players before finally being removed from the game. If we assume that 2,000 of the previous 5,000 "banned" players are permaban worthy (a VERY high number) that means that permaban players "could" interact with 22,000,000 players. (They won't because there's overlap but you get the idea)

These are facts. This information MUST be accepted in order to have any reasonable discourse on the topic. Otherwise, this comes down to a disagreement on whether or not Riot is lying and making up the results of the Tribunal. If you want to believe that, go ahead, but I will not entertain conspiracy theories and "what if's" as part of an intended reasonable discussion.

Given the information provided, I feel that you've wildly overblown the "problem" of the Tribunal. The Tribunal affects a tiny percentage of those who player League of Legends and because of this, to generalize the issues those who get banned from Tribunal have to the greater player base is an inaccurate way to talk about the situation.

If you want a comparative, real life example, you are about as likely to be caught by the Tribunal as you are to be born mentally challenged in the greater population (2-3%). If you were to make generalizations about the challenges faced by the mentally challenged in the context that it will affect "everyone" it would be ridiculous - much like players facing the Tribunal.

The very premises that your argument flows from requires the Tribunal to affect a statistically representative number of players in the greater LoL game AND to be expanding. On both counts, the data shows this not to be the case.

This makes all your other claims rather baseless. For example,

To claim that you cannot interact with, show frustration with or talk negatively towards your team mates or opponent without incurring the wrath of the Tribunal is incorrect. I understand where this belief comes from (as most Tribunal cases come from these types of interactions) but that does NOT mean that expressing frustration is the cause, it's the method of expressing that frustration which is.

Again for a real life example, the number 1 killer in North America is heart disease, stemming almost entirely from the foods North Americans eat and the exercise we (don't) do. If looked at from the same perspective you're taking with the Tribunal, the "solution" would be to stop eating. Your argument is akin to saying that since most people die from eating bad food everyone must stop eating or they'll die.

Obviously that's wrong and not something you would say - yet it's the same flaw; mixing up correlation with causation.

The problem that 2.2% of the LoL population has is that they cannot express their frustrations in a way that is generally considered acceptable. I am NOT saying to "always be nice or constructive." I am trying to tell you that the way you (sorry to use you as an example) express your frustrations turns from acceptable to unacceptable because you cannot allow an argument to end without you being the victor - I'm referencing your Thresh game.

In my experience, for the 1% of players who cannot seem to stop themselves from getting reported and banned, the biggest problem by far is the inability to stop focusing on the verbal fight they're in. For many of these people who are trying to change, they've stopped using foul language or insults but they cannot seem to let an argument finish.

Look at me as an example. In the Amumu game I just played (you can look it up if you want), I told my mid Orianna "Jesus Orianna, watch the minimap. You ****ed me by letting Brand walk right past you" (I was in the jungle running from 2 guys and Orianna could have easily saved me).

Orianna didn't apologize and responded sarcastically but I didn't continue to "fight" with her as my comment said everything I needed it to. When she made a good play I typed "gj gj gj" (as I usually do) and never mentioned it again. Why? Because the play and her error was over and done with.

This is NORMAL for most players. I wasn't reported for what I said and I didn't "rage" when Orianna didn't acknowledge I was "right" or when she brushed what I said off. I didn't report her for not acknowledging my "rightness" and the game continued like most games do.

This is why most "toxic" players have trouble believing that most games of LoL are fairly "normal." If you let yourself get into fights over small comments you'll fight every game. If you let small comments go, as they're intended to be let go, you'll stop being reported and you'll like the game more.

Ultimately

I think that most of your arguments stem from an unsupported premise. I think that you've wildly overblown the effects of the Tribunal and the number of people it affects.

It is my opinion that the vast majority of LoL players are perfectly reasonable people who express themselves in games, positively and in frustration while remaining completely free of the Tribunal BECAUSE they see no reason to carry a disagreement with them over the course of the whole game.

I don't see the Tribunal being a big problem (I estimate) for 95% of players or even a problem at all for above 90%. I think it does "generally" a very good job and has improved the community by leaps and bounds over the 3 and half years I've been involved with this game.

To conclude; I acknowledge that the Tribunal isn't perfect and cannot ever be perfect. The very fact that it uses subjective rules and people as judges ensures this. But, I also think it's the very best system I've ever seen for a video game and that it has one of the highest success rates of any system with a large population EVER.

I know that was a bit of a ramble but I didn't feel like breaking it down into subheadings as that would require to much effort on my end :P

Props to anyone who actually read the whole thing and PS to my detractors; if you're going to "quote fight" me, please quote the whole IDEA not just the sentence because otherwise I'll probably just direct you to the rest of the paragraph you were quoting from.


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Calys Teneb

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Remember. It's better to be on the outside of the circle than the Lucky Pierre in the middle.


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