I believe punishment should be a last resort

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Joymonster

Member

03-06-2013

Have you ever considered that the player base of this game is far larger than many countries/nations?

I've been reading and following the way that many of the "Reds" interact with the community, an I love the insight into the design processes and Riot's drive to truly interact with and respond to the community. This has caused me to try to become a very positive motivator for some games that I feel may be turning sour. I'd like to believe that this has won me a few games.

From these very small successes, I began to think about a way to bring more positivity, and how to decrease negative behavior. I think some of us would be willing to be a player mentor, someone who cares and wants to not only impact their individual game, but people in general. I'd bet RP that people with high honor/win percentages would be more willing to participate, and there's probably even a baseline percentage that could be established.

Say a player is approaching the tribunal for the first time. They get matched with a mentor on their team for the next X number of games. There could be an alert that there will be a mentor on their team and "bla bla" is the main reason you have been reported. This mentor will be looking for the near tribunal player to clean up their behavior. If the mentor gives out honor, then the tribunal report counter could back off a bit. Should the mentor report the player, then it's off to the tribunal. There are many ways for mentor like qualities to be identified, it's all in how you use and see the data. I'm sure this would have a great impact, and there would be other unique ways riot could reward these player mentors (but the real reward is positively changing someone's experience).

For the mentor, it would need to be voluntary, never forced. The mentor will most likely have a high percentages of honor, some participation in the tribunal, and a variety of other metrics. But similar to the summoners code check box, once a player gets a mentor invite, they read a little guide and agree to follow mentor guidelines. See, (without data) I don't necessarily feel that the community is as "toxic" and I am currently ranked bronze 4. Once the player agrees to the guidelines laid out by Riot, then within the launcher, they will have the option to queue up as a mentor. Knowing full well that the next game will have someone near tribunal. I would WAY prefer this to getting someone randomly who is in the same situation. You are thinking i'm crazy, glutton for punishment, yada yada. No, I like to make a difference, help teach people, turn things around, be a positive influence.

Another fun thing would be a team MVP. This would be a player that was the swing for the winning team, the hardest carry, best support, most legendary save that swung the tide. This could be another honor badge, or a trophy, or whatever. This would have to be a unanimous vote or no badge. Heck, this could even be thrown into the ranking algorithm and affect placement matches/lp gains. Imagine voting for MVP, donating 1 lp from your win, the MVP player would get 4 bonus lp for being that good.

Players cannot vote for themselves, in the same way they cannot provide themselves honors. 4 votes get you a MVP. With each player donating 1 LP, this would be encouraging for people to try their best, to become that leader, that carry. People can ask for mvp votes all the want in chat, but that would never work. Be it a fantastic carry, an amazing jungler, a support who consistently saves our asses. These players need to be rewarded, and I would share my LP, because probably without that person, winning would have been much harder/impossible. Again, POSITIVE motivation to be a great player and help the team.

It's getting late, there will be more to come. I'd love to hear more positive ways to affect behavior! @lyte

Edited to include the things I forgot last night. Enjoy


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theplague1369

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Well my first problem with this is simple: Let's say things don't go the toxic player's way, and he starts raging, if the Mentor tries to calm him, he will most likely get raged at, if the Mentor is going to report him, and the toxic player figures that out, he will definitely get raged at. The problem I see is that you have a taken a "Mentor", a positive pillar of the community, so to speak, and just made him sit through a game where he is raged at even harsher than normal by a bad player, because he knows punishment is coming.

I don't feel like any player should ever be put through a toxic player's profanity laced rage, no player should have everything from their mother to their dog insulted. I especially hate the idea that a positive player, who of their own free will and action, would offer to help someone and then get bashed for the entire duration of a game. The idea of being the target of that much rage would stop people from wanting to participate I would think.

As far as the MVP idea, I like it, but you cant have players vote for themselves. A good analogy is the Brethren Court from the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, they cant pick a king because every pirate only votes for himself. I do like the idea though, it would make things more interesting, but I can see it causing problems if a toxic player thinks all the other guys should have voted for him.


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Joymonster

Member

03-07-2013

I had left out a couple very important things last night, must have been more tired than I thought.

For the mentor, it would need to be voluntary, never forced. The mentor will most likely have a high percentages of honor, some participation in the tribunal, and a variety of other metrics. But similar to the summoners code check box, once a player gets a mentor invite, they read a little guide and agree to follow mentor guidelines. See, (without data) I don't necessarily feel that the community is as "toxic" and I am currently ranked bronze 4. Once the player agrees to the guidelines laid out by Riot, then within the launcher, they will have the option to queue up as a mentor. Knowing full well that the next game will have someone near tribunal. I would WAY prefer this to getting someone randomly who is in the same situation. You are thinking i'm crazy, glutton for punishment, yada yada. No, I like to make a difference, help teach people, turn things around, be a positive influence.

As far as the MVP badge, I can't believe I forgot this. The players cannot vote for themselves, in the same way they cannot provide themselves honors. 4 votes get you a MVP. With each player donating 1 LP, this would be encouraging for people to try their best, to become that leader, that carry. People can ask for mvp votes all the want in chat, but that would never work. Be it a fantastic carry, an amazing jungler, a support who consistently saves our asses. These players need to be rewarded, and I would share my LP, because probably without that person, winning would have been much harder/impossible.


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Illouminous

Junior Member

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Bane1998

Member

03-07-2013

The problem is consistency. If I can be a toxic for 5 games, then be super friendly for my 'yer being watched' game, you've not really done anything to solve the problem. I just know when I can be toxic or not.

Punishment works because you're always being watched, and you're always at risk of punishment. You've taken that risk away, since I can just watch for the mentor game and behave at that point.

Or, at least made the process longer, I can prolly get away with that a few times before the system catches on.

Also, even if you don't tell me I'm in a mentor game, maybe I get lucky and don't rage that game.

Basically, it adds a 'redeem yourself' quality that you shouldn't get. If I was toxic in 5 games, just because I was good in 1 does not excuse the other 5.


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Joymonster

Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane1998 View Post
The problem is consistency. If I can be a toxic for 5 games, then be super friendly for my 'yer being watched' game, you've not really done anything to solve the problem. I just know when I can be toxic or not.

Punishment works because you're always being watched, and you're always at risk of punishment. You've taken that risk away, since I can just watch for the mentor game and behave at that point.

Or, at least made the process longer, I can prolly get away with that a few times before the system catches on.

Also, even if you don't tell me I'm in a mentor game, maybe I get lucky and don't rage that game.

Basically, it adds a 'redeem yourself' quality that you shouldn't get. If I was toxic in 5 games, just because I was good in 1 does not excuse the other 5.
I mentioned that a player could be introduced to X number of mentor games before hitting their first Tribunal. This process of positive engagement could happen at a much earlier stage, hopefully helping some players at least not be negative. Warning or no warning, I think it's fair for the first one to let people know. Maybe something more "progressive" would be the second round of mentors being random, and you get reported by them, it's an accelerated trip to the tribunal.

This way a player who is just a little negative, but not necessarily "toxic" (I put it in quotes cause I hate that word) can be introduced to several extremely positive players. People respond to positive reinforcement about a billion times better than negative.

"The problem is consistency. If I can be a toxic for 5 games, then be super friendly for my 'yer being watched' game, you've not really done anything to solve the problem. I just know when I can be toxic or not."

This sounds like you would be CHOOSING to be toxic. I would again be willing to bet RP that the vast majority of "bad" players are not making this decision to be this "bad." They just don't know as much as you do, either in game or in life. This is a free to play game, I'm not in the standard age bracket for this game, but I most likely have 15-23 year old people on my teams regularly. Did you have the common sense, knowledge and skills back then? Don't even get me started about confidence, and being familiar communicating in a stressed environment.

Sidenote: I'm probably the only person who gifted Sejuani . My buddy likes jungle. There are a ton of other champs to gift, why Sej? This guy wrecks with Sej in the jungle. So nuts. I knew he would love her, just another example of a different viewpoint.