Analysis of why I disagree with the Singed nerfs (warning math inside)

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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farranor View Post
It's downvoted because he says health isn't a defensive stat, then downvotes whoever points it out.

But seriously though, it's downvoted because, by and large, GD doesn't like text. Why would someone who's already made up their mind about an issue want to read several paragraphs of text?

Yes, many people on GD have already made up their minds about many topics. A downvote doesn't mean your logic or reasoning were flawed (except for saying that health isn't a defensive stat, of course), it means someone is upset at the prospect of having to think.
The reason I don't list health as a defensive stat is because on Singed, the health is just a nice bonus that comes with the AP items that happen to suit him. Honestly, we can all agree that with BotRK around, health stacking doesn't really mean anything. % damage is % damage. Regardless of whether or not you have 1k Hp or 4k Hp, you are still losing the same amount of Hp.

Health doesn't defend you from damage, it just allows you to take more. That being said it is a defensive stat in the sense that it makes you harder to kill I suppose.


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Farranor

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Housewife View Post
The reason I don't list health as a defensive stat is because on Singed, the health is just a nice bonus that comes with the AP items that happen to suit him. Honestly, we can all agree that with BotRK around, health stacking doesn't really mean anything. % damage is % damage. Regardless of whether or not you have 1k Hp or 4k Hp, you are still losing the same amount of Hp.

Health doesn't defend you from damage, it just allows you to take more.
That doesn't mean health isn't a defensive stat, it means you get defensive stats rolled into your standard build.

So when you say, "IT IS MORE IDEAL TO STACK HEALTH AND DAMAGE ON SINGED OVER DEFENSIVE STATS," it's more like it's more ideal to stack damage-oriented items than pure defensive items, because Singed's preferred damage items include adequate defensive stats (and of course, a utility stat that, for Singed, turns into a defensive stat). The fact remains that if you are buying items that increase your health, you're stacking a defensive stat. Why not rush Rabadon's instead of RoA? Because RoA may not have as much offense as Rabadon's, but it has a lot more defense on it, plus mana that Singed double-dips into.

And health may not defend you from taking damage, but it does defend you from dying. Hence, League of Warmog's. This writeup about "Time To Live" and "Effective Health" is on the WoW forum, but the basic concepts apply to LoL as well: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2830983283


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shing0

Senior Member

03-07-2013

I thought this thread was the analysis of why you disagree with singed nerfs and not the analysis of the nerfs. Seems english is too op for americans


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SKT T1 HotshotGG

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shing0 View Post
english is too op for americans
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAn!?!?


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shing0 View Post
I thought this thread was the analysis of why you disagree with singed nerfs and not the analysis of the nerfs. Seems english is too op for americans
I disagree with the nerfs they gave and listed my own suggestions. English is too OP for those who lack comprehension.


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Ep1cLeprechaun

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NlGHTMARE View Post
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAn!?!?
Beautiful.


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-09-2013

bump


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Kaicha

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Senior Member

03-09-2013

Tenacity is priceless. There are only 3 items that grant tenacity, and only Merc Treads is viable on every champion. So to state that added tenacity is less effective or not as worthwhile is wrong.

The reason Riot removed Tenacity is because it allowed Singed to ignore even more CC, which is dumb. Every champion should be countered by hard, well chained CC, but problematic champions like Irelia, Singed, Olaf and Poppy ignore that rule, which is why Riot has such a hard time balancing them.

Singed's issues arose in S3 due to Liandry, and because he has insane innate tankiness due to his passive.


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-18-2013

I am bumping this as of right now because while people currently think that these nerfs will destroy Singed, I think otherwise. I will also bump this again in the future when people realize that Singed is still strong and the nerfs aren't hitting a whole hell of a lot.


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Drekor

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Housewife View Post
I did use the wiki values. Calculate the gold cost of tenacity yourself if you don't believe me. PS the gold value for tenacity isn't on the wiki.
This is what I used:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Item_efficiency

Since you clearly know better, why don't you calculate the value of tenacity for everyone please?
The wiki doesn't have a value because there is no baseline item to compare it to so any calculations you come up with are based on completed items which are vastly more gold efficient than base items which all the efficiency calculations are based upon.

In essence it's a horribly unfair comparison. If you look at Seraph's for example it gives 4558 gold(without it's passive or active) worth of stats for 2700g. You can't go and say well because of that all MP5 is free! You must have a common base or you cannot make a reasonable comparison.