Analysis of why I disagree with the Singed nerfs (warning math inside)

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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-06-2013

First of all, let me state that I do think is a bit too strong. He snowballs incredibly well and is just very annoying and difficult to deal with. However, I disagree with the nerfs entirely as I feel that they aren't touching the correct issues.

The Fling nerf is understandable, but questionable. Currently, Fling does 300 damage at rank 5 and has a 1.0 AP Ratio on it. This would be ridiculous if it weren't for the fact that this skill costs 100 mana at rank 1 and 140 mana at rank 5. If you are going to take away a chunk of the ability's damage, then at least lower the mana cost so that Singed is not paying for less than he's getting.

Let me explain the real problem. At rank 3, Singed's ult provides him with 11204 gold worth of stats. That's right 11204 gold worth of stats. For those that do not know the numbers on his ulti, at rank 3 it increases his AP, Amor, MR, Hp/5, Mp/5, and MS by 65. It also gives him 20% Tenacity.

Here is how the stats distribute in terms of gold:

Quote:
Ability Power...................1414 gold
Armor.............................1300 gold
Magic Resist...................1300 gold
Hp/5...............................2340 gold
Mp/5..............................3900 gold
MS..................................910 gold
Tenacity............................40 gold
HOW I CALCULATED THE VALUE FOR TENACITY
Quote:
Boots cost 350 gold and grant 25 MS. This means that 1 MS costs 14 gold. Null-Magic Mantle costs 400 gold and grants 20 MR. This means that 1 MR costs 20 gold. The price of Mercury's Treads is 1200 gold.

Boots + Null-Magic Mantle costs 750 gold. The recipe for Mercury Treads is 450.

This means that 450 minus the value of MR and MS granted for upgrading Merc Treads will give us the value of 35% Tenacity.

450 - 20(5) - 20(14) = 70.

35% Tenacity is worth 70 gold. Setting up a quick ratio between the Tenacity that Merc Treads gives and the Tenacity that Singed's ult gives at rank 3 nets us the value of 40 gold.
Alright so I am aware that Tenacity is a really good stat, but you also have to keep in mind that it stacks in a multiplicative manner. This means that the Tenacity that his ult gives is worth a lot less when combined with the Tenacity from the Defense Tree (that most Singed players take) and the Tenacity that Merc Treads gives (if Singed has Merc Treads). The only thing that this nerf does is essentially force Singed into taking Merc Treads, thus limiting his choice of boots.

Also the Tenacity is worth 40g, regardless of what you think. Everyone knows that Tenacity is a very valuable stat, but the reason it's so cheap is because you HAVE TO buy other items before being able to get the Tenacity Effect at all. I know people are going to think, "This guy is dumb for saying Singed's Tenacity is only worth 40g", but math says otherwise. Deal with it.

The problem with Singed is that adding up the gold values for Armor, Magic Resist, and Hp/5 from his ult gets you a total value of 4940. This means that 44.1% of the gold total goes directly towards defensive stats (excluding Tenacity which accounts for 0.36% of the gold value of his ult).

12.6% of the gold value goes to AP (the only offensive stat his ult provides) and the remaining 42.9% goes to utility (Mp/5 and MS).

This means that most of his ult goes directly towards defensive stats.

Relating this to Singed's build path it means that IT IS MORE IDEAL TO STACK HEALTH AND DAMAGE ON SINGED OVER ARMOR AND MAGIC RESIST.

The amount of defense you gain from Armor and Magic Resist decreases the more you stack them. Since Singed's ult already gives a good Armor MR steroid, he can get away with building little to no Armor/MR oriented items and focus on stacking AP and Health.

This is the reason he is annoying. Damage does not get through to him well and the amount of Hp Regen his ult provides makes it so that the damage that does get through to him sticks a lot less than it should.

Quote:
TL;DR
If you want to nerf Singed, don't touch his Tenacity or Fling as it won't do anything. However, if you touch Fling, please lower the mana cost.

In my opinion, what needs to be nerfed is the Hp/5, Armor, and MR steroid portion of his ult.

This will force Singed into buying a bit more defense thus causing him to buy less AP. This will lower his overall damage output for the amount of innate tankiness he already has.

I hope that this comes to the attention of a red like Xypherous and they at least give is a read to see as to whether or not they agree.


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Undervalued

Senior Member

03-06-2013

truth. I say nerf his ult to 12 seconds like mundo but INCREASE the stats he gains. I dont liek the fact he is running around for 25 seconds in god mode. That really bothers me.


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TheBestAshe

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains of Misery View Post
truth. I say nerf his ult to 12 seconds like mundo but INCREASE the stats he gains. I dont liek the fact he is running around for 25 seconds in god mode. That really bothers me.
Lol 12 seconds? Might as well take away his ult entirely. What else bothers your highness and shall be nerfed to sh!t?


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lol I died again

Member

03-06-2013

"Screw the math, look at reality." - Albert Einstein


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lol I died again View Post
"Screw the math, look at reality." - Albert Einstein
The real quote is actually:
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Albert Einstein

He is also quoted as having said:
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

Also LoL is a video game.


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FallKniven

Senior Member

03-06-2013

I could handle a 12 second ult if they tripled the buffs it gives XD
Then you really would be godmode for 12 seconds and it would be awesome lol


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallKniven View Post
I could handle a 12 second ult if they tripled the buffs it gives XD
Then you really would be God for 12 seconds and it would be awesome lol
Reduce the duration by ~half and give it triple the bonuses? Lol......


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Unban Auspexa

Member

03-07-2013

Dat gold calculation gave me cancer. Are you serious? You could have used wikia's stat-gold values, at least they're far more accurate than this garbage.

20% Tenacity 40 gold, lol.


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unban Auspexa View Post
Dat gold calculation gave me cancer. Are you serious? You could have used wikia's stat-gold values, at least they're far more accurate than this garbage.

20% Tenacity 40 gold, lol.
I did use the wiki values. Calculate the gold cost of tenacity yourself if you don't believe me. PS the gold value for tenacity isn't on the wiki.
This is what I used:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Item_efficiency

Since you clearly know better, why don't you calculate the value of tenacity for everyone please?


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Caítlyn

Member

03-07-2013

TL;DR

I downvoted cuz hes op