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Some questions about ADC

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Separated

Member

03-07-2013

I heard from stream videos that botRK is better than BT since it is cheaper and it is a lot more useful plus very strong for duelist (ADC).

And for kog'maw, why does he get IE first? What makes kog'maw different from other adc? I know that ashe's passive allows her to crit so IE will be efficient but why kog'maw?


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TehomCD

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Intentionalities:
I heard from stream videos that botRK is better than BT since it is cheaper and it is a lot more useful plus very strong for duelist (ADC).

And for kog'maw, why does he get IE first? What makes kog'maw different from other adc? I know that ashe's passive allows her to crit so IE will be efficient but why kog'maw?


BoRK was being rushed on every AD carry when it was extremely overpowered, and particularly synergized well on champions like Vayne and Tristana. I'd still often rush it on Vayne, Tristana, or Varus, as it adds very significantly to their burst and kiting ability, though you'd make a pretty big damage tradeoff in the midgame against squishy targets.

People often rush IE on champions who don't have as much AD scaling in their abilities, so they won't have as much burst from an ability combo with the additional AD you get from bloodthirster. IE will pretty much always be higher sustained damage with autoattacks, so rushing rushing it is just trying to reach the point where Kog'maw can obliterate anyone when his W is active. Blade of the Ruined King would probably be a better rush on him if you're losing and need sustain and the defense from the active, or if you're worried about assassins/fighters reaching you, while IE is just better from a 'make everyone die while my frontline/support protects me' perspective.


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iRequiem

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Intentionalities:
I heard from stream videos that botRK is better than BT since it is cheaper and it is a lot more useful plus very strong for duelist (ADC).


Its pretty situational. BotRK was used to deteriorate HP stacked enemies. It was made even stronger which made it stronger that BT, Now its passive gets shut down by armor stacked and its dmg and lifesteal got reduced. which turned it situational

Quote:
Intentionalities:
And for kog'maw, why does he get IE first? What makes kog'maw different from other adc? I know that ashe's passive allows her to crit so IE will be efficient but why kog'maw?


Kog'maw is no different from any other adc, the reason people rush IE is because the first item you should be grabbing when you back is a BF sword or a Pickaxe because he does lack some damage early game. The bad part about rushing IE is that you lose out on the sustain you get from lifesteal. And dont let the misconception of ashes passive fool you aboout getting IE once that first shot crits or not if you dont have any crit chance on her you wont do anything.


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Torenthal

Senior Member

03-07-2013

If you'd like to practice one hitting, we can do a 1v1 together and see how well you do. I'm pretty good at adc's all around so I might be able to teach you some tips and tricks.

Add me in game if you'd like!


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Separated

Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Torenthal:
If you'd like to practice one hitting, we can do a 1v1 together and see how well you do. I'm pretty good at adc's all around so I might be able to teach you some tips and tricks.

Add me in game if you'd like!


I would do so! Thank you! And thank you all for answering my question and explaining it to me!


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4Degreez

Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
iRequiem:
Grab both on vayne. Since she requires attack speed both items work great. you get an extra bonus 100 dmg every so often in fights and bot items give her crit and attack speed which procs her W faster. What can you do against a vayne that crits and does extra damage with her W and statikk shiv? nothing i know because i do it all the time on her.

I suggest not to get them both because the effectiveness of DPS will diminish when you stick with an individual stats.
E.G.
Item A will increase AS by 50%, while item B will increase AD by 50%
-Case 1: buying 2 x item A.
The total increase in DPS is calculated as: 1 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 2 times as before
-Case 2: buying item A + item B.
The total increase in DPS is calculated as: (1 + 0.5) x (1 + 0.5) = 2.25 times as before

You will want a more balanced build cuz the DPS function is defined by [f(AS) x g(AD) x h(Critical Rate)]/i(Opponent Armor Rate).

Quote:
Intentionalities:
I heard from stream videos that botRK is better than BT since it is cheaper and it is a lot more useful plus very strong for duelist (ADC).
And for kog'maw, why does he get IE first? What makes kog'maw different from other adc? I know that ashe's passive allows her to crit so IE will be efficient but why kog'maw?

-BotRK and BT are at the same price: 3200, but it is considered to be the most OP offensive item atm.
-About Kog'Maw, I often see top Kog'Maw players prefer SS. When you see a guide, you should only concern as a suggestion not standard. The best item is the item that will suit your playing style and the situation. A good example is an Ashe build from TPA Bebe: Manamune + Zephyr. These items are rarely used, but they work particularly well with Ashe skills.

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Intentionalities:
So pretty much no defensive item on vayne? It will be boots > botRK > SS > PD > LW > IE?
Also.. should i assume botRK is replacing BT for all ADCs since it is really good?

-BotRK, SS and PD are all AS items, so it is definitely a bad idea to put them together as first. [Also, there is an AS cap.] A better idea is to buy 1 x AS and 1 x AD or vice versa.
-LW is a tricky one. As it provides armor penetration bonus, so be sure check your opponents armor rate before buying it.
-BotRK is more of a replacement for PD. A life stealing item isn't necessary a replacement of another life stealing item. The DPS or team fight effectiveness should be a more concern (that is again stick with two AS item is never a good idea).
-Also, two AS items will put most of the champions close to the AS cap (Even above e.g. Tristana with Q, beware of that).


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Burbinator

Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
-BotRK, SS and PD are all AS items, so it is definitely a bad idea to put them together as first. [Also, there is an AS cap.] A better idea is to buy 1 x AS and 1 x AD or vice versa.


Depends on the ADcarry, while you are correct stacking too much AS is bad, going BOTRK + SS or BOTRK + PD is very viable on many champions. Vayne for example has a huge AD steroid on her ultimate, and more AS will also benefit your BOTRK on hit and silver bolts on hit effect. Kog similarly has a very potent on hit effect from his w.

Quote:
LW is a tricky one. As it provides armor penetration bonus, so be sure check your opponents armor rate before buying it.


Thanks to the change where armor penetration stacks before flat, LW is always a pretty decent item. You absolutely need it quickly if they are stacking armor, but even if they aren't it will add some good dps. Besides checking the opponents armor you should also consider how much you are pure auto attack and how much you are ad caster. LW is slightly more valuable on someone like graves who has large physical damage nukes which wouldn't beneift from crit, whereas trist will benefit a lot more from crit.

Quote:
BotRK is more of a replacement for PD. A life stealing item isn't necessary a replacement of another life stealing item.


largely disagree. PD is going to be your single highest source of crit %, and movespeed is invaluable on an adcarry. Going BOTRK + PD is more viable than BOTRK + BT.

Quote:
Also, two AS items will put most of the champions close to the AS cap (Even above e.g. Tristana with Q, beware of that).


Not true. BOTRK + PD + zerkers + trist q + level 18 will still not put you above the AS cap. Just BOTRK and PD and zerkers is still < 2 attack speed. You should only EVER worry about hitting the AS cap if you have AS buffing teammates such as nid/ww/j4/nunu on your team. Even then, it's not really that bad a thing because randuins is very very prevalent and since it will reduce your AS multiplicativley you honestly never should worry about hitting the cap. You DO still want to worry abotu balancing crit/ad/as properly but it's not because of the cap, to be honest.


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Separated

Member

03-10-2013

So what I am wondering is when do you get an item such as SS and when do you get PD? I know its all situational of when to get but may you give me an example? I know SS is for pushing the lane and quick farming but PD is good for chasing down enemies. How do I tell like in what situation to get those item?
Also May i assume that all ADC should get LW instead of BC?


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iRequiem

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
4Degreez:
I suggest not to get them both because the effectiveness of DPS will diminish when you stick with an individual stats



i get 324 damage, 2.136 att/sec, and 80% crit. chance with my build consisting of;

berserker greaves
phantom dancer
statikk shiv
blood thirster
infinity edge
frozen mallet.

i think ill stick to getting both. considering if you dont factor in armor id be doing 1620 dmg a second. doing a non-crit hit is pretty slim.


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Míley Dyrus

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
iRequiem:
i get 324 damage, 2.136 att/sec, and 80% crit. chance with my build consisting of;

berserker greaves
phantom dancer
statikk shiv
blood thirster
infinity edge
frozen mallet.

i think ill stick to getting both. considering if you dont factor in armor id be doing 1620 dmg a second. doing a non-crit hit is pretty slim.

You hare no armor pen in your build. Unless you're attacking enemies with under 100 armor (As an ADC, you aren't 90% of the time), a LW will do waaaaaaaay more damage than a second AS item.