Some questions about ADC

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Separated

Member

03-07-2013

I see. That makes a lot of sense. What about the Crit and atk speed? I still dont get what champion needs SS and what champions need PD. How do you tell ?


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GON the Mage Guy

Senior Member

03-07-2013

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
What I meant by losing in a team fight meaning it was 5vs5 and we lost. Doesnt matter where but they gain grounds but also retreated. What should I do then? I want to go out and farm but it is too dangerous. Lets say jungles are all taken. What else should I do? Our side of the minions are like across the map on their side that is why it is too risky to farm.
My point was, it's not a single answer to what to do, it's a judgment of what's going on. If the teams are now 2 vs 3, then you defend until your allies are back up and see how the situation is. If you're wanting a bit of minion farm, then grab some wards and go to the lane that's closest pushed to your turrets. If minions are too far out, judge where the other team is. Can you see them? Where were they last? Where are they going? Ward where they are not at the moment, or ask someone to ward. If the objectives are up (blue, red, dragon) consider going for one of them. Are any of their team alone, and you can see 2-3 of their team? Rally the team to go get that guy.

Quote:
Lets also start from the basic concept. If you use ability and it crits, does it stacks up with your ability? For that last question, please give me a bit more examples. Also RH is a good item for ADC ( I think so) and what about Zephyr? How do you tell what items to go for depending on your champion? That is what im truly confused on. What is the difference between ADC champions.... ah.. like ADC champion is really general.. I would like to go more into details like categories of adc and such.
Abilities generally don't crit unless otherwise stated. If you used something like Draven's ability that boosts damage, the damage goes on top of the crit. His passive then goes on top of that.

Ashe has a passive ability that increases her crit, so building crit on her is efficient since between the times you're not attacking, your crit chance goes up. Shiv would be great on her because Shiv damage crits as well, but she also has no escape, so PD is also a good choice. It's a situational buy.

Graves benefits more from something like Bloodthirster and Black Cleaver, possibly going Shiv to add to his AOE type abilities.

Kog'Maw is good with crit if built AD, because he also shreds armor, meaning he will do a LOT of damage with a crit.

Runaan's is great on champs that have a proc of some sort, Twitch, Varus, MF, Teemo. It applies procs to anything Runaan's hits.

Zephyr is a situational buy if there's a lot of crowd control.

Essentially, you're looking at your champion as it fits in your team, while items you buy for the situation. Team has a lot of CC? Get a Zephyr by mid game. Team is stacking health? Buy a Blade of the Ruined King. Lots of armor? Last Whisper or Black Cleaver. Not killing things fast enough, and you rely more on your autoattack? Pick up a Phantom Dancer. Need a little bit of help early with gold, and keep getting pushed out of lane? Get an Avarice Blade to build into a Shiv later. Doing a lot of damage, but the enemy dives right on you? Get a GA.


A lot of this takes experience to remember, because it's a lot of information. Stick with a core 1-2 items on a champion mainly, and build everything else based off the situation.


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TehomCD

Senior Member

03-07-2013

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
I see. That makes a lot of sense. What about the Crit and atk speed? I still dont get what champion needs SS and what champions need PD. How do you tell ?
The reasoning I heard from one pro player who plays AD is that he gets Static Shiv when his team needs additional 'wave clear'. It's not just for clearing waves quickly when farming, it's to speed up pushes, and also for defending towers - if you can wipe out all the creeps at your tower instantly when the enemy team is trying to push, it forces them to take tower hits when they're trying to damage the turret, and can make things very dangerous for them if you have a lot of crowd control abilities on your team. So if you're playing an AD carry like Ashe, who isn't particularly good at clearing minion waves compared to a Graves or Corki, and your mid is a mage who isn't particularly good at wiping out minion waves (A Leblanc, for example), it might make a lot of sense to take static shiv for the additional pushing power at the cost of your single target damage, since Phantom Dancer will always be stronger on single targets.

Similarly, since it does AE damage every once in a while rather than giving strong sustained damage, it's good when there's a lot of times when the teams are poking at one another. If you're an Ezreal, who's the strongest AD carry at poking people due to his long-range Q, and there's going to be a lot of standoffs, it could make your team much stronger in those situations.

On the other hand, if teamfights are often based on strong initiations by tanks, and you just need to be able to kill tanks and bruisers who get on you, you probably just want as much single-target damage as you possibly can. You'd probably have Blade of the Ruined King and/or phantom dancer in those cases.


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Separated

Member

03-07-2013

I see. Thank you. I been practicing last hitting but it isnt doing so great. Its kinda hard to last hit under pressure.. 6 minutes in and i can only get about 10-30 cs kills. Are there any other suggestions on last hitting better and being aggressive early games while being safe?


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TehomCD

Senior Member

03-07-2013

It's actually harder to last hit well in lower level games because everyone is so focused on harass and going for kills; your opponents will often completely neglect their own last hitting just to try to go on you. In situations like that, you're probably best off rushing a ton of sustain - health potions, doran's blades, an early vampiric scepter, etc, just so you can try to not get dangerously low when they constantly try to harass you. If you can survive people trying to harass you while getting a big lead in CS, though, you'll probably be able to kill them at least once before the laning phase is over when you come back to lane stronger than they are and they fail to realize it in time.


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iRequiem

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Time for the great insight of iRequiem

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
1.) Why are "some" champions better with SS and some better with PD? What is the whole logic behind it and why those specific champions?
For Statikk Shiv, most champs work great with it, anyone that mainly auto attacks so it builds up stacks

For Phantom Dancer, because it eliminates collision it works well with castors or anyone for that matter when you chase down enemies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
2.) What is the difference between a good ADC player and a bad ADC player in a "pro" viewpoint?
The difference between a good ADC and a bad ADC is the ability to coordinate with your support. The support will ALWAYS play a big role in getting an ADC kills.

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
3.) I have a friend who can carry the game just by having a little advantage in gold or such sort (not too sure). While I do great on bot, I still can't carry the game. For example, I get like 4-5 kills bot, I still get owned pretty badly. I know that ADC are squishy and positioning and last hitting is key, but how do I use that advantage (if i am really ahead and doing really really well in bot) to its fullest?
The whole misconception for the ADC is you require mass amounts of farm. That is not true, for any lane in fact. The biggest objective in laning phase is denial. The actual pro's not the people who think theyre pro play aggressive lanes for this reason. If you drive your opponents out of lane or far back from the minions you deny them xp and farm. The only reason you dont see this happening alot in LCS is because, well, its pros vs. pros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
4.) Lets say you lost in team fight and enemy gets a lot ground. What do you do? Often times, I find myself clueless and or following someone who don't know what to do too.
If you lose a team fight and the enemy aces you theyre most likely going to push and theyre going to keep pushing until you guys start showing up. as ADC if your up first your not going to do much unless its the more squishy side of the team. but of course if its the adc and apc then your going to die if theyre strong so i wouldnt advise going in. The best thing to do is to defend, if you know that if you dove the enemy team and you would die then let them take the tower or the inhib. its better to let them take that instead of taking that and a kill.

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
5.) After bot tower is destroyed, what do I do? Stay bot and keep farming or go help mid or top?
The biggest misconception with destroying a tower is being able to roam. DO NOT ROAM, i cant emphasize it enough. Stay in lane, if both the adc and support return then your support will have to be there, if not then let your support roam. It allows other lanes to give more pressure to their lanes and it allows you to get maximum XP. You HAVE to keep that lane pressure up other wise everyone starts piling up. Of course if they start doing the team roam thing then your going to have to stop and start doing the same.

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
6.) Last question... Some ADCs rely on crit, some on flat dmg, and others on its abilities for example ezreal using iceborn gauntlet because of the passive.. How do you tell what adc uses what and what items to get? Like what is the whole logic behind it?
ADCs that are casters like Ezreal and Corki work well with Iceborn Gauntlet because of the slowing ability. Where as others who rely on basic attacks will build up more damage, crit, and attack speed.


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Separated

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03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehomCD View Post
The reasoning I heard from one pro player who plays AD is that he gets Static Shiv when his team needs additional 'wave clear'. It's not just for clearing waves quickly when farming, it's to speed up pushes, and also for defending towers - if you can wipe out all the creeps at your tower instantly when the enemy team is trying to push, it forces them to take tower hits when they're trying to damage the turret, and can make things very dangerous for them if you have a lot of crowd control abilities on your team. So if you're playing an AD carry like Ashe, who isn't particularly good at clearing minion waves compared to a Graves or Corki, and your mid is a mage who isn't particularly good at wiping out minion waves (A Leblanc, for example), it might make a lot of sense to take static shiv for the additional pushing power at the cost of your single target damage, since Phantom Dancer will always be stronger on single targets.

Similarly, since it does AE damage every once in a while rather than giving strong sustained damage, it's good when there's a lot of times when the teams are poking at one another. If you're an Ezreal, who's the strongest AD carry at poking people due to his long-range Q, and there's going to be a lot of standoffs, it could make your team much stronger in those situations.

On the other hand, if teamfights are often based on strong initiations by tanks, and you just need to be able to kill tanks and bruisers who get on you, you probably just want as much single-target damage as you possibly can. You'd probably have Blade of the Ruined King and/or phantom dancer in those cases.
What do you recommend on vayne then? Since she dont have a clearing ability does she get SS or PD. Afterall since Vayne is a 1vs1 champion, I find her better off using PD rather than SS but she does not have any clearing abilities.


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iRequiem

Senior Member

03-07-2013

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Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
What do you recommend on vayne then? Since she dont have a clearing ability does she get SS or PD. Afterall since Vayne is a 1vs1 champion, I find her better off using PD rather than SS but she does not have any clearing abilities.
Grab both on vayne. Since she requires attack speed both items work great. you get an extra bonus 100 dmg every so often in fights and bot items give her crit and attack speed which procs her W faster. What can you do against a vayne that crits and does extra damage with her W and statikk shiv? nothing i know because i do it all the time on her.


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Separated

Member

03-07-2013

So pretty much no defensive item on vayne? It will be boots > botRK > SS > PD > LW > IE?

Also.. should i assume botRK is replacing BT for all ADCs since it is really good?


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iRequiem

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentionalities View Post
So pretty much no defensive item on vayne? It will be boots > botRK > SS > PD > LW > IE?

Also.. should i assume botRK is replacing BT for all ADCs since it is really good?
I wouldnt recommend getting Infinity Edge Last.

My build for Vayne is:

Beserker Boots
Blood Thirster
Phantom Dancer
Infinity Edge
Statikk Shiv

For that last item its pretty situational you can grab last whisper for the armor penetration, blood thirster for more damage, blade of the ruined king for the hp stacked frozen mallet for the extra hp and the chance of slow, or another phantom dance for more attack speed and 100 % crit chance

That is the order i usually go in as well