So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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Fallen3angel

Senior Member

03-16-2013

I find it silly that people keep asking if she is supposed to be a mid or support. She was always intended to be a support. I find people who play taric mid and think its viable just as silly. Stop trying to jam champions into roles they don't belong in. Especially in ranked play, it's bad. Yes karma could do well mid. But you had to have mantra charges to make her effective. After you blow both of them, your main damage (shield) is non-existent.

Her art looks great.

But please actually work on her kit. Imo she seems less effective than she was before....you need to keep the shield and the ability to make abilities help or hurt. Her kit looks awful tbh.


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BMark

Junior Member

03-16-2013

As someone who LOVES KARMA and plays her often I can say I do not like her new look, I mean come on she needs the fans! As for her kit I think you have it half right. Yes you kept the shield bomb YAY and the changes to the tether are good but will it still be castable on minions and allies? that was a fun element to her. Those are the 2 things I like about her new kit..... now why is her aoe heal gone? again that is something that is really cool about karma because she is able to do dmg and heal her allies at the same time. I feel you should add that element into her new Q. Although I like the idea of reducing the cd on her mantra only having one is going to make playing her even harder because players were already finding the cd on her 2 mantras wasn't enough but ill be interested to see how it works out.

I guess what I am trying to say is please try to keep the spirit of Karma in this rework. Right now I dont think you have it quite right. Im just concerned because she really is one of my favorite Champions and I dont want the things I love about her to be ruined.
* Shield
* AOE heal that does Dmg
* tether that slows enemies as well as speeds up allies (at least with the mantra)


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Drewship

Junior Member

03-16-2013

OMG SO EXCITED! i love karma favorite support, or on three's very fun ap


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Fallen3angel

Senior Member

03-16-2013

They really need to keep the fans I agree. It's really dumb to take that away.


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Holyphantom001

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Junior Member

03-16-2013

I've loved karma since before I hit level 30, originally I had played her only as support and grew to really enjoy how well her AoE heal synergized with harass or poke based teams. I am skeptical but excited about her new kit, but I have one complaint, completely removing karma's ability to heal allies entirely when her heal was arguably the best late game heal available (specifically in team fights) seems extreme.

Perhaps adding the ability to target allies with her W to heal both herself and said ally as flipside to not dealing damage would be a good way to keep her support core truly intact while maintaining the image of duality that makes her unique.


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Mysnomer

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Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Passive.jpg[/aws3]

Passive: Gathering Fire – Hitting enemy champions with Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown.

:\ Are you serious? Can you guys frickin settle on how powerful innates get to be? I can see why a lot of people disagree with this change from DotA. On a dozen more powerful champions, this would simply be part of her ult's description. This is just like Syndra, a BS waste of an innate that tells me you think you need to tone down her power*, which makes me angry. While she could have an innate that adds to her gameplay, instead she has fluff. And what's the trade-off? Potential power that could easily fluctuate with nerfs and buffs. I'd rather have an innate that creates opportunities for plays than something so trivial that it should be a note in another moves text box. You need to make a choice: Riot design that sometimes bloats champion and forces you to work harder at balance, or clean and simple DotA design that slightly detracts from interactivity/engagement. Because one thing I refuse to accept is DotA design simplicity hidden inside a Riot design shell by dealing out the different parts as filler.

As for the abilities, well, I always played Karma as an AP carry (which is one reason I will sorely miss her awesome innate), so they seem fine. I miss the burst healing on Q, and speed buff on W (so much for my plan to clothesline the enemy team with Lichbane+boots3 Karma and an ally Singed), but overall the abilities seem close enough to the originals to satisfy. I guess it all depends on Mantra's CD and whether it will be a levelable skill (I hope not).

*It can't be for lack of creativity, like Syndra, because Karma already had an amazing innate.

Edit: Oh yeah, impulse downvote that dota comment. I know how you work. Nevermind that it's a perfectly valid comparison.


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jyooj

Junior Member

03-16-2013

so her tether is now the heal, does damage over time and roots if held long enough.

while i do like the aoe slow from her Q, for me, one of the biggest team advantages of karma was the AoE heal from her Q based on missing health %, but now she can't heal allies. I feel like that was a huge part of Karma's kit.

Also, while I like that you don't have to be super close to enemies to touch multiple with the line to do damage (always a stupid utility), while a targetable snare is nice, again I feel like Karma lost her team utility of being able to hit multiple enemies at once.

Moreover, part of what made turret diving Karma very dangerous was her old passive- she is much stronger when lower, and also her immediate heal. But now her heal is over time, only on herself (makes it harder for low-health allies to help), thus making her less dangerous to dive.

Finally, her new passive seems a bit inhibiting. We'll have to wait to see exactly how often the cooldown on her ult comes back up, but I still feel like 3 charges would have been the way to go. In team fights, auto-attacking will not always be an option since APCs are not supposed to be in AA range. And if you have to spam abilities just to get your mantra back, that means you're putting your abilities on cooldown without being able to have used it with mantra. Unless her other abilities now have lower cooldowns, this just doesn't seem that helpful nor as game changing as other APC's ults.

Overall, I don't like Karma's rework and am kind of disappointed to hear the changes. I feel like she's lost a lot of her team utility and characteristics with the changes.


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Olmy

Junior Member

03-16-2013

Honestly, at first I was in love with the idea of Karma getting reworked but now, I have some concerns.

While downloading the game I looked through the list of champions and found her to be one of the ones I liked the look of. She was one of my first buys and I have yet to regret it. I love playing as Karma, even though I am squishy, and just in general supporting with her. She had EVERYTHING a support could ever need. A slow (that could also speed up your allies), an AOE Heal (that could damage), and an amazing sheild (that you could use to save an ally and steal the kill :P ).

I feel that changes should be made, but not this drastically. She should lose the fans but I don't like the big thing on her back / above her head. I like the idea of her old mantra. Have something akin to two flames (one black and one white (or two oposing colors)) that float around her or over her shoulders. (It would make her look simpler and to be honest, that big thing is just stupid looking.)

I just wish you would keep the old passive, Q, and R and use the new W and E (of course adjust Q for not having fans and remove the heal from W). I think that would make a better Karma.

Honestly, Ill have to try the new karma before I know if I love or hate her but I really am hoping I don't lose my favorite character because you were not satisfied with her. Especially when some of us were and accepted her. (Though we recognize JUST A FEW changes could be made.)


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Whyumai

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
So without further ado… here’s Karma’s new kit:


Passive: Gathering Fire – Hitting enemy champions with Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown.


R: Mantra – Empowers Karma’s abilities, adding an extra effect to the next ability cast.

Q: Inner Flame – Skillshot that deals magic damage and slows enemies in an area.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Soulflare – Increases damage and leaves behind a zone that slows and, after a brief delay, explodes for AoE damage.

W: Focused Resolve – Enemy-targeted tether that deals damage over time. If the tether is unbroken after a short duration, the tethered target is rooted in place.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Renewal – Deals bonus damage and heals Karma for the duration of the tether.

E: Inspire – Shields an ally and grants them a short speed boost.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Defiance – Enemies near the shielded ally are damaged while nearby allies are shielded and granted a short speed boost.
So basically

1. She still can't peel for her ADC, as her only hard cc isn't instant but over time effect like Morgana's stun.
2. She now can't heal her ADC

It actually sounds like she's in a worse off place with this remake as a support. If the intention is to remove Karma's ability to support that's fine, but why not go all the way?


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Zodai

Member

03-16-2013

can her tether still be able to assist teammates or/and can the sheild be cast on yourself while still giving u the speed boost as well? and also can the tether still deal damage to enemy units inside the teather?