So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SethCougar View Post
Is that said somewhere? Would you mind linking me? I might have missed other things.
Sure, it was in the original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Old Karma had issues. What were they?

Karma’s kit was in a weird place, but her ultimate was especially problematic. Her base abilities didn’t feel impactful and only felt effective when supercharged by Mantra. On top of that, when Karma had two charges of Mantra, we had to make both of them weaker to compensate for players double casting empowered spells.

The changes we made to Karma’s kit focused on making each decision fun and meaningful while giving her abilities the focus they needed to perform her intended role. We kept the “empowering”-type gameplay of Mantra, but instead of waiting around for it to recharge, Karma’s basic attacks and abilities now lower Mantra’s cooldown. This rewards aggressive play so you can “buyback” her ultimate. Also, we gave Mantra a single charge to pump extra power into each cast. We also made sure Mantra empowers Karma’s abilities in drastically different ways, leading to more impactful decision-making and a better feeling of accomplishment when you pull off the right move at the right time.


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Vinta Calvert

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino All Day View Post
if say you have a skin for her... and they get a new dress up... what happens to the old ones you already own or will they translate over sort of speak...???
You must be new to reworks.


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FrozenMistninja

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Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotAmes View Post
Don't apologize for how you feel about things. I've got thick skin. You are right that this is not a VU.



The designer/s paid attention to how Karma is currently played. Players who are familiar with Karma still enjoy playing her. I asked the team the other day, "Is Karma fun?" the answer was "Yes". You and others will be the judge of their success in the end.



Just a hint? Hm. Like we've said - we don't want players thinking she fights with her fans for various reasons. I do understand the attachment, though..



Possibly. I can't speak to what we'll do with upcoming champions. I will say that, technically, a full dress is a bit of a nightmare at times. Some of the animations we wanted to do with Karma don't support it.


Since you arnt keeping my fans....and I can no Longer HIT THE FAN....please put FANS in her recall.....FANS ARE A MUST, and future lolers for generations will thank us for having thick skin and sticking to it. For us karma lovers it feels like the only power we have in this matter is a petition and protest to keeping the fans....It builds a story that many future lol players can look back on and maybe wonder, why the random fans??? Well because its a symbol of the many random FANS(karma players) who love and enjoy her, its a play on words more than anything, But I promise without fans all of your work on Karma is going to waste, because no matter how buffed or OP she becomes, Im taking a stand as a leader(like karma) and will never play her again without fans.....at Least in recall......PLEASE RIOT!


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TheValkyries

Member

03-15-2013

I'm going to lash out with anger and frustration because change terrifies me! Booooo, Scarizard! Booooo!


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Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky Shark View Post
I like Karma's new passive. You won't have to rely on baiting to be effective. You can spend less gold on cdr, and more on ap.

Before, it was bad to stack too much health on Karma because the more health she had, the longer it took for her passive to kick in. I think her lack of an aoe heal makes up for the fact that she can build tankier now. And that aoe shield is badass.

Most people think that the old spirit bond is dumb. They don't understand how effective it can be. With enough cdr, you could basically always have the enemy team slowed. With her new abilities, she can apply slows more often. She can do damage and slow an area without hoping her enemies walk through that tether.

Overall, I like the changes. No, it won't be the same Karma. But most people didn't like her to begin with. It will be weird to get used to at first. Her kit looks really exciting, and it resembles her old kit, so it shouldn't be too hard to get used to.

I will always remember the good times I had with old Karma, but the new aoe shield makes up for it.
That Baiting is what made her so extreemly fun to play and rly paid off if done well. Its a other unique thing they destroyed abt Karma >.>


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Healurownbum View Post
Thats assuming the ppl keep standing in the AoE itself. From what i read its like a bomb on the ground u can walk away from it. That makes E the only worth spell still. As it also does AoE dmg.
Quote:
Inner Flame – Skillshot that deals magic damage and slows enemies in an area.

Empowered by Mantra: Soulflare – Increases damage and leaves behind a zone that slows and, after a brief delay, explodes for AoE damage.
It's clear that the exploding zone is separate damage. It increases the base damage then applies an exploding zone to the area.

Maybe the zone's only 10% of the entire abilities damage with Mantra? Maybe it does a ton of initial damage?

We don't know yet. That's my only point on that line of thought. We don't know if she has to get that explosion to do good damage. If she does, yeah I agree it sounds terrible. But it may not be balanced that way and it's premature to make a declaration until we know.

I'm basically nitpicking the choice of being definitive when new abilities are always things that need to be used to really see.


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HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen Nakazora View Post
Question, from an old Karma player.
Does the shield still have the ability to target minions?
Oh god. You're right. I sure hope she is...


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Lokibo

Junior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Old Karma had issues. What were they?

Karma’s kit was in a weird place, but her ultimate was especially problematic. Her base abilities didn’t feel impactful and only felt effective when supercharged by Mantra. On top of that, when Karma had two charges of Mantra, we had to make both of them weaker to compensate for players double casting empowered spells.

The changes we made to Karma’s kit focused on making each decision fun and meaningful while giving her abilities the focus they needed to perform her intended role. We kept the “empowering”-type gameplay of Mantra, but instead of waiting around for it to recharge, Karma’s basic attacks and abilities now lower Mantra’s cooldown. This rewards aggressive play so you can “buyback” her ultimate. Also, we gave Mantra a single charge to pump extra power into each cast. We also made sure Mantra empowers Karma’s abilities in drastically different ways, leading to more impactful decision-making and a better feeling of accomplishment when you pull off the right move at the right time.


Why was she hard to place in team comps?

Karma had the offensive tools to support her team in small skirmishes but not the powerful defensive abilities she needed to protect a team. Also, her all-purpose abilities are so broad they never felt like the right choice in any situation. All in all, Karma lacked direction.


Why isn’t Karma fun?

The effectiveness of Karma’s abilities relied too heavily on your teammates knowing all their nuances. No matter how hard you were carrying with Karma, your teammates had to be just as good with her for you to be super effective. When an ally’s confused about whether or not he should run from or pass through your Spirit Bond, we probably made a mistake.


What did we like about Karma?

Despite all the Mantra hate we’ve got going on, we actually think the concept is pretty kickass. It’s unique and character-defining to old Karma, and augmenting her abilities with an immense surge of Ionian will is visually and thematically fun. We also liked how Karma could turn the tables on her opponents with abilities that provided defensive bonuses and had hidden offensive power. Finally, Spirit Bond’s “clothesline” gameplay is really cool, but it’d work better on a tank champion that has an easier time jumping into the fray.


Karma’s new role

Originally envisioned as a support, Karma’s fringe successes actually came from players using her in the top or mid lanes as an AP burst mage with support abilities, much like Zilean or Morgana. We like this direction and want to encourage you to boost both her offensive and support abilities by building AP. We also want to make sure she can hold her own as a solo or with a lane partner.

Finally, we’ve updated her skills so allies are reliant on Karma, but Karma’s not reliant on them. She’s got enough power at her fingertips to feel strong as a mage or as a support without teammates having to work in perfect concert for you to be effective.


So without further ado… here’s Karma’s new kit:


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Passive.jpg[/aws3]

Passive: Gathering Fire – Hitting enemy champions with Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_R.jpg[/aws3]

R: Mantra – Empowers Karma’s abilities, adding an extra effect to the next ability cast.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Q.jpg[/aws3][aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Q_Empowered.jpg[/aws3]

Q: Inner Flame – Skillshot that deals magic damage and slows enemies in an area.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Soulflare – Increases damage and leaves behind a zone that slows and, after a brief delay, explodes for AoE damage.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_W.jpg[/aws3][aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_W_Empowered.jpg[/aws3]

W: Focused Resolve – Enemy-targeted tether that deals damage over time. If the tether is unbroken after a short duration, the tethered target is rooted in place.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Renewal – Deals bonus damage and heals Karma for the duration of the tether.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_E.jpg[/aws3][aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_E_Empowered.jpg[/aws3]

E: Inspire – Shields an ally and grants them a short speed boost.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Defiance – Enemies near the shielded ally are damaged while nearby allies are shielded and granted a short speed boost.
Does this mean Karma can be played as an AP and Support?


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MrTharne

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerDrool View Post
Wait...hmm... So is it now sort of like Ezreal's Essence Flux? What type of AoE pattern are we looking at?
I think it's a straight skillshot that "explode" on the first impact, with a wedon'tknowyet radius. Think Anivia's Q but it explodes on the first hit.


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Xyrne

Senior Member

03-15-2013

That Passive should just be moved onto Mantra so she can have a real passive.