So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risemix View Post
It's funny that you say that, because a lot of the "anti-gender white knight internet crusader" types would say that posture, personality, and grace shouldn't convey gender either, or that nothing should, or that you shouldn't be able to tell gender by anything but appearance. For example, why shouldn't there be a man that behaves in a way that is more traditionally effeminate?

This argument is very hard to have, because while most people agree that gender equality and freedom to be, act, and dress the way you want are Good Things, no one agrees on how these things should be achieved and conveyed. Do you know that a lot of people would say your statement was in fact very sexist? I don't really agree and I think that in fact some degree of sexism is natural because players want to be able to identify in various ways with the characters they play, but it is important to note.

I guess what I'm saying is that Riot is never going to please everyone. They have a pretty wide variety of champion designs and try very hard to make sure everyone has champions they love. Quinn has an appearance and mannerism that is more traditionally "masculine" and her design suffered because of that, in a way.
Well as I said in a previous post, I definitely do not agree with the usual views of "anti-gender white knight internet crusaders" as you call them, so how is it surprising that my statement contradicts them?

Also I was actually talking about femininity rather than gender. As you said, it's a delicate argument. The original Karma to me was the embodiment of traditional, classy, mature femininity. There are other types and other examples of femininity, many of which I think are actually depicted pretty well in LoL, but by changing Karma, they now have one less type, basically. She went from unique to pretty generic in her design and apparently also her lore and demeanor.

If they want to experiment with new types of characters, new mixes of qualities, feminine men, masculine women, everything in between and more really, I'm perfectly fine with that. I actually WANT that. What I am against, is going back to a champion that was already established and created with a very solid concept in mind and changing them into a completely different thing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aginor2

Member

03-07-2013

I am a die hard karma lover. Ever since i first started playing her a few months into starting LOL she very quickly became my favorit champion bar none. No other champion comes close i love her look (her fans) and her abilites. I do like the new look and i love the one you are giving as the calsic skin but i do miss the fans she held in her hands and would aprecate in the future to have a skin with fans .


That being said ever since i herd rumor of a karma rework i have been close to dead terrified that her kit would be murderd. I am comforted and the hints you are giving us because i awase thought she was more dps (you compared her to morg and lux). but the aspect of karma i loved the most was that with her mantra all her abilties were turnd into both offensive and defensive and while i know karma isnt that viable in most situations mantra+shield is my favorit move in the game

what i am asking is if you are keeping the integrety of her moves being able to be offensive and defensive most of the time and if you are keeping or adding something that is similar to that amazingling orgasmic matra+sheild she had

I do like what riot does and while im normaly a big critic i think riot goes with its fans a lot and i aprecate that but im still worried whats going to happen to my karma

PLS MORELLO RESPOND


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Risemix

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryOrunitia View Post
Well as I said in a previous post, I definitely do not agree with the usual views of "anti-gender white knight internet crusaders" as you call them, so how is it surprising that my statement contradicts them?

Also I was actually talking about femininity rather than gender. As you said, it's a delicate argument. The original Karma to me was the embodiment of traditional, classy, mature femininity. There are other types and other examples of femininity, many of which I think are actually depicted pretty well in LoL, but by changing Karma, they now have one less type, basically. She went from unique to pretty generic in her design and apparently also her lore and demeanor.

If they want to experiment with new types of characters, new mixes of qualities, feminine men, masculine women, everything in between and more really, I'm perfectly fine with that. I actually WANT that. What I am against, is going back to a champion that was already established and created with a very solid concept in mind and changing them into a completely different thing.
You know, you seem cool and we seem to be mostly on the same page. I'll say straight up that while I'll miss Old Karma a bit, the skin has placated me and I'll still have her in a way if I want to play her. I welcome the New Karma, and understand why Riot changed her, and you understand why but are upset that they dramatically altered something you felt was unique and is now gone. That's respectable, totally.

If I were a part of the "New Karma Sucks" lobby on the forums here, I'd try arguing for a few alterations to Traditional Karma (such as putting the fans on her skin somewhere). I think the idea is that Riot still wants people to have the champion they love (and, in fact paid for) at least in spirit and focusing your energy on alterations to the skin seems to be the most productive route. New Karma is here to stay for better or worse. :/

TL;DR: My original post wasn't really even aimed at your perspective. We mostly agree. New Karma is sexier, not oversexualized but fundamentally different from Old Karma.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ChromeFalcon

Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destiny Doctor View Post
Anyone else get the image of the original designers of reworked champs drinking alone in a dark room, crying softly to themselves? Or being tried and executed in a royal riot court for crimes against players?

No? Guess I let my mind wander all the way down the garden path and out the gate this evening.
Nah, I imagine they dont really care since they're swimming in a money pool.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

emi chii

Junior Member

03-07-2013

I'm a current owner of Sakura Karma cause i freaking love this champ, yet, i'm impressed how not-pissed i am to see this is how it's gonna look like from now on. But my question is: Are the old skins going to persist after the VU? Is there any information on that?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HarryOrunitia

Senior Member

03-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risemix View Post
You know, you seem cool and we seem to be mostly on the same page. I'll say straight up that while I'll miss Old Karma a bit, the skin has placated me and I'll still have her in a way if I want to play her. I welcome the New Karma, and understand why Riot changed her, and you understand why but are upset that they dramatically altered something you felt was unique and is now gone. That's respectable, totally.

If I were a part of the "New Karma Sucks" lobby on the forums here, I'd try arguing for a few alterations to Traditional Karma (such as putting the fans on her skin somewhere). I think the idea is that Riot still wants people to have the champion they love (and, in fact paid for) at least in spirit and focusing your energy on alterations to the skin seems to be the most productive route. New Karma is here to stay for better or worse. :/
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we actually agree on the whole gender/sexualization debate, so definitely no hard feelings

I know "New Karma" is here to stay, I went from complete denial to kind of accepting it in the last few hours... Still, if as you said they would at least improve on her traditional skin to make it more like the original one (adding some kind of reference to the fans, or maybe a certain walking animation...) I would be much happier.

Well, part of me is still hoping for a miracle, with her "traditional" skin becoming the default one, but I know it isn't going to happen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xerzaph

Senior Member

03-07-2013

I like her new look, it makes her seem more like I always imagined her. Her lore would imply that she was always at peace, in tranquillity, but what I could see in her old model was more akin to restraint.

I'm not sure a red will see this, but I'd like to say this has made me like Riot even more, the fact that Karma's fans are gone will create nostalgia, a sense of longing for what was, perhaps endearing Karma to her players even more? At least, that's the way I see it should be, rather than the dissatisfaction expressed by a lot of people in this thread.

I think the thing I like most about it is that the new Karma shows progression, Karma now truly appears to be the figurehead of Ionia the way I never really thought she did. Thanks, I love what I see, and I love what I can read from it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GreetingsGoodbye

Member

03-07-2013

The looks might have wanted a little tweaking, but if you want to know what's really wrong with her persona, it's her voice. It's like I'm play Barbara Streisand...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Risemix

Senior Member

03-07-2013

This is going to get a lot of flack, but agree on her VA. A lot of the older VAs were pretty bad, but people have an emotional attachment to them and replacing them without pissing people off is a challenge lol

Like, eventually they have to remodel Nasus. And they'll probably have to give him a new voice because his current one is not only badly acted out, but limited: he has only a few lines total, much less than most champions in the game. The unfortunate passing of Nasus' VA means they can't get the same guy back. What happens there? :/


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-07-2013

I rly hope they keep the offense defense picking with her kit tho, i dont like the new look thats my opinion. Just worried she will become more offensive based then being able to pick throu mantra.