So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Terra Enigma

Senior Member

03-06-2013

@Riot, can you now talk about what happened with Guinsoo?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rez Delnava

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasnak View Post
In all honesty? It's a fan/no-fan thing. I'd be ecstatic about this if the fans weren't removed...It's just not right. It's just too much...

Karma may be the least popular champion, but as someone who rushed his ip when first starting to play just to get her and learn her as my champ, this departure is just too far. It looks great, really, it does, but why must the fans be removed? It is just part of her...Karma is the fan using champion...and now she isn't...now she is something completely different, even in the traditional skin.

Us Karma players have been excited about this VU/Kit Rework, but I think it is hard to explain how this can rub us the wrong way. I'm sure we would all agree that we think this VU is gorgeous, but it just isn't our Karma. When we heard VU/Rework, none of us thought that it would mean this radical of a change...a removing of her fans...a reworking of her lore...

If it is the final direction you are taking Riot, I can respect that...but this isn't the same Karma as many of us know/love now...and while I can even dig more of a focus on the 'Enlightened One,' I just don't understand removing her fans, such a large part of what made Karma who she is.

I just want to reiterate that this VU is beautiful, and I appreciate all the work Riot is devoting to Karma, as she is a champ who needs it...no one denies that. I just feel after looking through all of this, as a current Karma player, I can't help but be a little depressed at the direction currently being taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Thanks - this is informative.

Because of the rig and how things "work" (shorthand), the fans won't be returning here, but I think that these might have been more important to some die-hard Karma fans than we originally thought.

As our first full overhaul, we want to make sure if there are additional considerations that we take them into account when approaching these. While our decisions can quite possibly at least put off a few players with this kind of stuff, it is food for thought next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Additionally, Karma originally only had two fans, and we wanted to increase that amount by removing the fans.
I'm one of those two fans and I can tell Sasnak who I quoted is too. I think the major sticklers on the fans happen to also be League Lore-hounds.

Sorry for the wall of block quotes, but my my reply here does need the context.

As lore hounds, we sticklers still want the fans. I touched on this in my previous comment in this thread(p.118), but the fans represent a significant change in the social dynamics in and out of Ionia. The fans were an heirloom, a symbol of the old Ionia. They were then enchanted by Janna, a new ally. The power they had were representative of Ionia's fledgling strength. Symbolically, they represent Karma's ability to hold old values, new allies, and fledgling strength together as a whole. Additionally, Janna's act of enchanting the fans in defiance of Zuan's alliance with Noxus is a fairly defining moment for Janna's lore too.

Thats why I still want the fans. It is a significant portion of Karma's lore that you are just dropping.

But I'm also 3D modeler/hobbyist/modder and if a the guys making the model say no-go, its no-go.

So how about a compromise. Give us a reason why she no longer has the fans. Make a new champion that inherits the fans in the lore. The siblings thing is played out; lets go with something a little different, Karma's spouse or son... maybe? It could even be a thief that takes them and decides to use them, the Notorious 'C' perhaps? There is potential here. And if you need a legal disclaimer, this is yours to use freely.

At the very least make a summoner icon that has the fans and a lore explanation why she isn't using them anymore.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

minsake

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Karma's new dance should be from "what doesnt kill you, makes you stronger". that is...if she is still keeping her old passive :d


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

zlefin

Senior Member

03-06-2013

passable; but i'm not really satisfied that such was necessary or appropriate; and there's heroes with far more issues to address then her. remember, not every champ is for every player.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meowlick

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Finally! Now can Riot please change Nidalee's hair on that proposed new skin art?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

magik8ball

Senior Member

03-06-2013

While I do like the new visual update, and I'm sure the new stuff will be great, I am a bit disappointed that we'll be losing one of our precious few 'reserved' champions. Her personality type is the kind that is quiet, reserved, but not in a shy way. Rather, as a way that suggests she has wisdom far beyond the average person. Zilean has a similar archetype, but it's offered in a playful way.

I think I'd rather play a champ who's more of a 'wise elder' type than another "badass paragon" like so many other champs seem to be (hello Draven... and all of Demacia).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SilverKitsune

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Healurownbum View Post
A few that dont seem to rly matter, its all abt the mass. And trying to get them to buy Karma it seems I dont feel like they listened to Karma players at all in all honesty.
I feel like they didn't give us the chance to give input. There's been no precedent for a rework/remake/re-whatever-you-want-to-call-it of this level, and the closest may very well be Dark Valkyrie Diana losing her helmet shortly after release. I just wished they'd put up a poll or started a suggestion thread asking the general player base what we liked about her now, or what we thought was important to keep in a complete remake of the champion. Even Morello admits it's the first time they've done this drastic of an overhaul on a champion.

It's a bit off topic, but what I want to know is, why didn't it cross anyone's mind (on the Karma remake team) to ask/poll the player base what they liked about the champion (both in terms of aesthetics and kit) before starting it? Didn't the Dark Valkyrie Diana incident show them that change may be good (or necessary), but not everyone has the same opinion on what constitutes as "good"?

At this point, all I'm going to do is to reiterate my request from my first post in this thread: Is there any way you can have her use her fans in her Traditional/Classic/Vintage skin?

Edited to add: As per LoL wiki, she was released back in February of 2011. To think she wouldn't have some die-hard fans who liked her (aesthetically/kit-wise) enough as she was (heck, she even got played in a shield comp at tournament!) was a very bad call.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sakfalibak

Junior Member

03-06-2013

Will her other skins (Sakura Karma, Sun Goddess Karma) be getting remade too?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Healurownbum

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by minsake View Post
Karma's new dance should be from "what doesnt kill you, makes you stronger". that is...if she is still keeping her old passive :d
As the whole elegant resolve and what not is out of the door. Yes please i like it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SoresuMakashi

Senior Member

03-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I don't actually understand this. Did you expect the model to remain low-res? Is this a fan/no-fan thing? I want to understand, but this is really confusing that this is a feeling someone has on this.
In terms of the different between Traditional and current Karma, I'd say it's mostly the dress. Obviously, in keeping with the new look, the fans have to go and everything, but the new dress is annoying. The old one was split down the middle, half white, half black, emphasising the balance in her philosophy (yin/yang) and gameplay. The new one just looks like she has a dress that has some white and black and she just wrapped it around herself.

Also, she doesn't have her elegant skirt anymore. Now she has exposed legs and what look like heels. It's nowhere near as elegant (and impractical!) as it was before IMO.

In terms of her new default skin, I've discussed that in my post on page 109.