Blade of the Ruined Kind (Red Attention plz)

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xGnesis

Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoj 21 View Post
its already less sustain than bloodthister.
Yeah, but still has more sustain then most items. Remove in general and add in some extra penetration or something to compensate for the lost of unnecessary lifesteal.


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Fanaticmogg

Senior Member

03-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerkaro View Post
Forget it......Let's just bring back the good old Madred's Bloodrazor. Same damn thing but no active, deals magic in leu of physical ( face it....% damage that is physical on a AD champ versus someone that builds armor? Silly if you ask me ), has light AD and armor, and some attack speed. That thing was a true tank buster.
The reason that MBR was never built was that it was pretty useless against someone with MR. AD Carries never build Magic Penetration, so someone with a decent amount of MR would be blocking much of the damage. On the other hand, Last Whisper and the ArPen mastery are pretty much standard on AD Carries, which gives about 40% ArPen and then you add the flat ArPen from runes and masteries, so overall you get a lot of things that synergize with its damage. Also, armor stacking ISN'T as common now - health stacking is, and that's the entire point.

EDIT: Also, BotRK gives Lifesteal too, which makes up for the loss of a Bloodthirster, if you choose to remove that from the build. And it's also cheaper than MBR.


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Renault Char

Junior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CnR Gnesis View Post
The problem was that it has armor for no reason! Should increase damage for no armor at all. But your case is true.. Physical % damage against someone who builds armor to negate your aa.. -.- I would like to see MDB come back because all the hp item stacking lately, I dont know they took it out of the game since they made armor and mr harder to get and hp easier to get. All they had to do was buff it and change the item route for it and baam balance item, maybe add in an active just a slow or something to make has a peel mechanic.
It also did 2.5% hp as damage instead of 5%


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Fanaticmogg

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinedown1996 View Post
It also did 2.5% hp as damage instead of 5%
It did 4% of max health, but as magic damage, so it wasn't affected by Armor Penetration. And pretty much every AD carry has Armor Penetration.

Kitae's does 2.5% max health damage.


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SlappindaBass

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Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by iRequiem View Post
BEFORE

+40 Attack Damage
+10% Life Steal

UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 5% of the target's current Health in bonus physical damage (max 90 vs. monsters and minions) on hit.
UNIQUE Active: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum Health (min. 100) as physical damage, heals for the same amount, and steals 30% of the target's Movement Speed for 4 seconds (60 second cooldown).

THAN

+30 Attack Damage
+40% Attack Speed
+15% Life Steal

UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 5% of the target's current Health in bonus physical damage (max 90 vs. monsters and minions) on hit.
UNIQUE Active: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum Health (min. 100) as physical damage, heals for the same amount, and steals 30% of the target's Movement Speed for 4 seconds (60 second cooldown).

NOW

+25 Attack Damage
+40% Attack Speed
+15% Life Steal

UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 5% of the target's current Health in bonus physical damage (max 90 vs. monsters and minions) on hit.
UNIQUE Active: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum Health (min. 100) as physical damage, heals for the same amount, and steals 30% of the target's Movement Speed for 4 seconds (60 second cooldown).

It first started out with no Attack speed but more damage less life steal before and more now. There was nothing wrong with it before it was buffed, NO ADC bought it cause they never seen it, The only reason why people got it before the buff was because it was seen in action what it was capable of during the LCS. EVERYONE including the professional players were impressed. By the time it was showcased the buff was already to be in place by patch time. and because they saw how much of an impact was made they nerfed it to what it is now.

The solution to HP was BotRK
The solution to BotRK was Armor
The solution to Armor being stacked is magic damage
The solution to magic damage is Magic Resist.

What counters a champion with HP, Armor, and Magic Resist?

Last Whisper: 35% Armor Penetration
Blade of the Ruined King: 5% current HP bonus dmg
Void Staff: 35% Magic Penetration

Not Enough Penetration?

Armor Penetration Runes: 19.2 Max Penetration (Shows as 19 on the rune page)
Magic Penetration Runes: 19.5 Max Penetration (Shows as 20 on the rune page)
Armor Penetration Mastery: 8%
Magic Penetration mastery: 8%

Everyone is so caught up in following the way everyone else builds that they dont look up or try items themselfs which is why BotRK was never used in the first place. Build to your play style not another players. Build what is needed not the standard.
well your before and after is a little off before its was 150 dmg plus half of your att dmg for the active.
also the 5% on hit you stole half in health


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just4GG

Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CnR Gnesis View Post
Yeah, but still has more sustain then most items. Remove in general and add in some extra penetration or something to compensate for the lost of unnecessary lifesteal.
Lifesteal is not at all unnecessary. BotrK is meant to enable you to deal with bruisers who dive or run at you all day. Lifesteal is one major perk to accomplish that goal.



Quote:
Originally Posted by iRequiem View Post
What counters a champion with HP, Armor, and Magic Resist?

Last Whisper: 35% Armor Penetration
Blade of the Ruined King: 5% current HP bonus dmg
Void Staff: 35% Magic Penetration

Not Enough Penetration?

Armor Penetration Runes: 19.2 Max Penetration (Shows as 19 on the rune page)
Magic Penetration Runes: 19.5 Max Penetration (Shows as 20 on the rune page)
Armor Penetration Mastery: 8%
Magic Penetration mastery: 8%

Everyone is so caught up in following the way everyone else builds that they dont look up or try items themselfs which is why BotRK was never used in the first place. Build to your play style not another players. Build what is needed not the standard.
The point I made wasn't that it's impossible to counter health and armor stacking. You can do that. However, compared to what it costs to stack those defensive values, building the counters is fairly cost inefficient since the items you need tend to be very specialized. Which means you'll be way less effective than you could be against other targets. If I opt for BotrK+lw instead of going Infinity Edge+pd I'm gimping my damage against other carries very heavily in favor of being able to deal with bruisers a little better.


Also this wasn't intended to be a blind discussion over how good or bad BotrK is in general.

The main point I was raising is that the nerfs go in the wrong direction. They hit adc champs who use BotrK harder than they hit Bruisers who use the item. For explanation see above. This is terrible, because BotrK is not an item a bruiser or assassin should buy for extra burst, but an item to help adc champions against the "League of tanky stuff in your face"-meta.

Hence my idea of altogether removing the damage on the active in favour of leaving the heal strong and adding extra attackspeed. Attackspeed because that stat was nerfed to hell with the S3 changes. Literally every as-item was nerfed and Randuin's cuts your (very expensively built) attackspeed by a flat 20% GUARANTEED on hit. Remember how it used to be like this: Burstchamp blows up adc, adc takes down bruiser with sustained damage, bruiser can't be bursted down and kills burstchampion? Well, right now it's "tanky champion with high base damages destroyes everything". And BotrK should counter that guy at least a bit, instead of giving him an extra tool not only to deal with his own kind but also to burst enemy squishies even easier.


By the way, the reason I put "red attention plz" into the title was to confirm or refute my assumption on what BotrK is supposed to do. Obviously if Riot actually designed BotrK as another bruiser/assassin item and not an aid for adc champs, then I have no leg to stand on. But if Riot actually believes Bruisers need to be even stronger than they are now then ... well, in my opinion they might as well straight up delete ranged physical carries from the game. :S


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