Laning Phase

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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti View Post
Haha honestly halfway through writing my first post, I was like "Why am I even wasting my time with this guy? He is obviously extremely closed minded about the topic. Oh well I'll give it a try anyways." And I'm still thinking that. But I'll try once more.

First of all, there is a laning phase. And if you don't think there is, you're wrong.

Secondly, I honestly want to know, why do you play this map? Does everything about it suck?
I play this map because I played the old one exclusively, when it was still good.

There is not a laning phase for many champions. If you cannot win duels and teamfights early on, it is impossible to farm safely. You can't get close to the minions, you're useless with your team because it splits the farm and experience so much.

Let me rephrase things a bit. There is no possible laning phase unless you're a bruiser or ridiculously safe laner. Even then, it's suboptimal to running around 3v3 skirmishing literally all game.


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-05-2013

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Originally Posted by AndersMMO View Post
To the OP;



Pain and simple.

There is an inarguable lane phase, yes it's shorter and involves more ganks than an SR one but that doesn't make it any less of a lane phase.

And news flash, even if there wasn't a lane phase; at what point does that make this map "broken?" Is there some omnipotent law I'm unaware of that necessitates lane phases?

The map is what it is. The majority of the community thinks it's in a relative good place right now so the fact you think it's so radically broken means that either everyone else is crazy, or you're looking for the map to be something it isn't. I think everyone less you would agree it's the latter.

TLDR; I fed the troll.
It's broken because the bruisers are god tier, and this is largely because of the lack of a laning phase.


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Yetti

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Blade Yago View Post
I play this map because I played the old one exclusively, when it was still good.

There is not a laning phase for many champions. If you cannot win duels and teamfights early on, it is impossible to farm safely. You can't get close to the minions, you're useless with your team because it splits the farm and experience so much.

Let me rephrase things a bit. There is no possible laning phase unless you're a bruiser or ridiculously safe laner. Even then, it's suboptimal to running around 3v3 skirmishing literally all game.
Just because you played the old TT doesn't mean you have to play this one. But it sounds like you have altered your stance a bit on the laning phase issue, so that's good. When playing champions that don't have the safest laning phase, play accordingly. Usually going bottom and letting the lane push to your tower is the safest spot to farm on the map. Yeah you may give up a bit early game (they will get your altar most likely... not the end of the world), but usually champions with a bad laning phase pay out in the mid to late game.

It's still best to, instead of complaining, learn to adapt. And if you do want to complain (there are definitely times that there are legitimate things to complain about), provide a reasonable, viable solution along with your complaint. And before you bring it up, "JUST BRING BACK OLD TT" has been suggested several times, and Riot has already shot that down. So it's pointless to keep arguing to get that back.

Anyways, good luck to you. I hope you can find enjoyment in playing this map, and if you can't, just remember nobody is forcing you to play.


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Demacry

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingJoeNL View Post
We play this because we loved the old tt and there is nothing closer to it than this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Blade Yago View Post
I play this map because I played the old one exclusively, when it was still good.

There is not a laning phase for many champions. If you cannot win duels and teamfights early on, it is impossible to farm safely. You can't get close to the minions, you're useless with your team because it splits the farm and experience so much.

Let me rephrase things a bit. There is no possible laning phase unless you're a bruiser or ridiculously safe laner. Even then, it's suboptimal to running around 3v3 skirmishing literally all game.
Then you, and I'm going to make a guess and assume everyone who comes to these forums crying for the old map, are playing the map for the wrong reasons.

(Since analogies are getting popular on the forums) You (assuming you're a regular individual of modest income) don't buy a new car because it drives like an old one, you buy it so you can get from point a to point b. Likewise, you don't play LoL(/TT) because it reminds you of an old game(mode) you play it because it's fun and you enjoy it.

You, and everyone like you, are just cluttering the forums with senseless whining and begging. After months of counter arguments and explanations the threads seem to finally be dieing down.

What are you trying to accomplish with this thread? Myself, others, and even diamond players have explained when, how, and why there's a laning phase but you continue to close your eyes, cover your ears and insist that your points are the right ones. If you arn't receptive to feedback why ask for it?


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Yetti

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demacry View Post
Then you, and I'm going to make a guess and assume everyone who comes to these forums crying for the old map, are playing the map for the wrong reasons.

(Since analogies are getting popular on the forums) You (assuming you're a regular individual of modest income) don't buy a new car because it drives like an old one, you buy it so you can get from point a to point b. Likewise, you don't play LoL(/TT) because it reminds you of an old game(mode) you play it because it's fun and you enjoy it.

You, and everyone like you, are just cluttering the forums with senseless whining and begging. After months of counter arguments and explanations the threads seem to finally be dieing down.

What are you trying to accomplish with this thread? Myself, others, and even diamond players have explained when, how, and why there's a laning phase but you continue to close your eyes, cover your ears and insist that your points are the right ones. If you arn't receptive to feedback why ask for it?
+1


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demacry View Post
Then you, and I'm going to make a guess and assume everyone who comes to these forums crying for the old map, are playing the map for the wrong reasons.

(Since analogies are getting popular on the forums) You (assuming you're a regular individual of modest income) don't buy a new car because it drives like an old one, you buy it so you can get from point a to point b. Likewise, you don't play LoL(/TT) because it reminds you of an old game(mode) you play it because it's fun and you enjoy it.

You, and everyone like you, are just cluttering the forums with senseless whining and begging. After months of counter arguments and explanations the threads seem to finally be dieing down.

What are you trying to accomplish with this thread? Myself, others, and even diamond players have explained when, how, and why there's a laning phase but you continue to close your eyes, cover your ears and insist that your points are the right ones. If you arn't receptive to feedback why ask for it?
The "senseless whining" has a very good purpose, addressing the problems of the map.

SUPPOSEDLY things like bruisers being too strong and turtling were nerfed, but they're worse than ever.

The smaller size of the map made it even harder for early characters to do anything because it's impossible to have a healthy laning phase.


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Demacry

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Blade Yago View Post
The "senseless whining" has a very good purpose, addressing the problems of the map.

SUPPOSEDLY things like bruisers being too strong and turtling were nerfed, but they're worse than ever.

The smaller size of the map made it even harder for early characters to do anything because it's impossible to have a healthy laning phase.
Since you seem so insistent, who do you want to play that can't have a laning phase?

I'm no diamond tier player but I have over 700 games played on the new TT with a 63% win rate. I've played almost every champ on the map at one point or another with only a few that I have yet to try.


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SmokingJoeNL

Senior Member

03-05-2013

What is that supposed to mean. Playing it for the wrong reason? I like lol, but not sr or dom. Si is not bad, but dreadfully simplistic. Only way I can have some fun with league is playing si. How is that not for the right reasons. How dramatic.


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demacry View Post
Since you seem so insistent, who do you want to play that can't have a laning phase?
Suppose the enemy team comp consists of something like Rengar, Lux, and Garen.

Your team is Darius, Malzahar, and Vayne.

Notice how because your team doesn't feature two bruisers, you're instantly going to be at a massive disadvantage. Vayne or Malzhar cannot usually handle a solo lane against Garen or Rengar. Vayne might do alright against Garen, but it's probably risky. Skill match-up comes into play to an extent, but it's very rough time laning.

One of them will be babysat by Darius, but if the enemy team begins roaming and ganking, you can really can only turtle at your turrets. Of course, this means turrets steal your farm, and eventually the bruisers will be able to dive you, or push down the turret while you're helpless.

It's not that any one character can't lane--it's that any team comp without at least two bruisers or ridiculously safe laners will get stomped, or, at the very least, is at a vast disadvantage.


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Demacry

Senior Member

03-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Blade Yago View Post
Suppose the enemy team comp consists of something like Rengar, Lux, and Garen.

Your team is Darius, Malzahar, and Vayne.

Notice how because your team doesn't feature two bruisers, you're instantly going to be at a massive disadvantage. Vayne or Malzhar cannot usually handle a solo lane against Garen or Rengar. Vayne might do alright against Garen, but it's probably risky. Skill match-up comes into play to an extent, but it's very rough time laning.

One of them will be babysat by Darius, but if the enemy team begins roaming and ganking, you can really can only turtle at your turrets. Of course, this means turrets steal your farm, and eventually the bruisers will be able to dive you, or push down the turret while you're helpless.

It's not that any one character can't lane--it's that any team comp without at least two bruisers or ridiculously safe laners will get stomped, or, at the very least, is at a vast disadvantage.
Let's go with your example of Vayne, Darius, and Malzahar (<- I play this guy all the time in 3s) vs Rengar, Lux, and Garen.

A well played Darius can out play a Garen or a Rengar (I would assume Garen would be top with this comp). Trying to have Darius lane with Malz or Vayne is the wrong way to go. Stick that guy top lane or he'll make sharing farm on bot lane difficult and he'll level slow. Darius scales exponentially with levels and farm. He's (should) not going to gank a lot till level 6-8 but in the meantime he's going to farm like it's SR. Push the lane, clear jungle camps, recall, clear camps, push lane, clear camps, recall. If he does just this for the first part of the game he'll have such a huge lead over their top lane and everyone else in the game it'll seem broken.

Malz can solo lane (or 1v2) easily, I'm not even going to touch this. If you can't make this happen then you need to rethink how you play Malz.

Vayne is the only one I would not leave alone to solo lane (though my experience with her is limited). If you set Vayne and Malz bottom lane the two working together should be able to split farm and zone easily. It will largely rely on freezing the lane just in front of middle where a wall stun can keep the enemy at bay. Vs a Lux, Rengar you just have to sit out of range of the bush jump and learn to dodge a skill shot.

If Rengar is jungling then you go balls deep on Lux and kill her, Vayne should be running exhaust/flash. You can zone a solo Lux easily and deny her farm and experience (a single e from Malz will chunk her for at least 30% of her life). If Garen is making runs to bottom to gank just unleash your abilies, push the lane, and back off before he gets there. Darius will thank you for the free lead you just gave him. Rengar jungling and comes through mid to pinch and gank? Plan for it, wall stun him and unleash all hell.

Yes if you put Darius bottom he'll be at a disadvantage because he didn't get to fast level or farm well because he got poked and zoned all early game. If your team only has one bruiser/wall put him top lane and let him fast level.