Let Ravenous Hydra scale on Crit, for the Melee ADCs.

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Galgus

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Senior Member

03-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kholdstare13 View Post
I can picture it now...
"I'll be usin' ye for chum!"
*click*
Pentakill.
I'll admit that I'm not an expert on Critplank balance.


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SlappindaBass

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Senior Member

03-12-2013

this item is unfortunately really bad.

Its melee only and they give it only 10% life steal? the reason lifesteal has been nerfed so much was the rangers. not sure why anyone would buy this item at its outrageous price.

its noob bate


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turulHAARP

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlappindaBass View Post
this item is unfortunately really bad.

Its melee only and they give it only 10% life steal? the reason lifesteal has been nerfed so much was the rangers. not sure why anyone would buy this item at its outrageous price.

its noob bate
While it's definitely not that great item now,it has a lot of potential.Currently it has "wasted" stat and exhanging that to crit chance would be very nice.It would potentially deal 160% of Attack Damage in AoE around the initial target with a crit.
It might be problematic when used for pushing especially on gp as he has the ultimate to split push.
However this can be restricted by either counting in only the base AD or the bonus AD for the crit.
But let me show you with math why it would be a very welcomed change.

Math:

Assuming 175AD: (175 * 1.6 )deals 280 dmg, that's +105 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.
300AD: (300 * 1.6 )deals 480 dmg,that's +180 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.

With base AD:
Assuming 100 base AD,75 bonus AD:
160% of 100 is 160 dmg.
60% of 175 is 105. 105+160= 265 dmg. that's +90 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.
In this case only the base dmg can crit which is then added to the overall AD dmg.
Resulting in lower dmg increase.
Also note 100 base AD is usually reached at late game.So a potential exploit of crit chance in this case is minimal,impossible.
All in all here the crit strike dmg is tied to level thus can scale into late game where as hp regen might be very well worthless especially how hydra's passive works with lifesteal.

With bonus AD:
Assuming 100 base AD,75 bonus AD:
160% of 75 is 120 dmg.
60% of 175 is 105 dmg. 120+105 = 225 dmg. that's +50 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.This seems to be perfect,
However additional AD ,let's say 50 results in:
100 base AD,125 bonus AD
160% of 125 is 200 dmg.
60% of 225 is 135 dmg. 200 + 135 = 335 dmg. that's +110 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.
Here "only" 50 AD resulted in huge dmg boost compared to the bonus 75 AD calculation,however it needs more AD to get the same effect as when counting in all AD.
So both version can be chosen to restrict the dmg.

Another thing to note is that the dmg DECAYS DOWN TO 20% near the edge.Which means only those who are VERY close the initial target will be hit with the full effect of crit strike dmg.


Overall changing the item path on Tiamat from Pickaxe + Long Sword + Rejuvenation Bead + Rejuvenation Bead to Pickaxe + Avarice Blade would be awesome.While this way Tiamat would not grant hp regen it would solve the expensiveness part of the item because of the passives on Avarice Blade.
Also vamp scepter with avarice blade would go well together.

That's it,a test on PBE would be very nice.


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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

well the item does contradict with league of legend creator logic. I remember a while back When ad caster was just starting a riot said that crit mechanic will be treated as on hit effect. this item does on hit proc which mean either the item need to apply crit or the item does not exist at all.


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Pobbes

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Tiamat used to work with crits or rather before its many nerfs and the remake. Tiamat used to work by calculating the damage of the attack and then doing a percentage of it as an AOE. The Devs didn't like it because the it casued tiamat to be unreliable and inconsistent but randomly overpowered. So, certain champs could build it late game and abuse it for pentakills, but anyone else buying it was useless. They switched to flat AD to make the item more useful overall to a greater variety of champs and more reliable. Hydra is sound as is, if you want a critical based wave clearing item, buy shyv.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlappindaBass View Post
this item is unfortunately really bad.

Its melee only and they give it only 10% life steal? the reason lifesteal has been nerfed so much was the rangers. not sure why anyone would buy this item at its outrageous price.

its noob bate
I wouldn't say that, but it seems to require building some additional lifesteal and damage items for it to shine.


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Chakat Reverse

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Senior Member

03-21-2013

I find it works best on the melee bruisers like Renekton or Hecarim who like the lifesteal, but really prefer the AoE pressure that the item provides. Characters like that become surprisingly dangerous and hard to kill with Hydra.


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Xocolatl

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Senior Member

03-21-2013

I wouldn't say that it is an item that has useless stats on it (I like the regens). The problem is that it is a weird item that costs a lot, and require you to craft your entire build around it. It just removes a lot of flexibility from your play, I guess.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KImre View Post
While it's definitely not that great item now,it has a lot of potential.Currently it has "wasted" stat and exhanging that to crit chance would be very nice.It would potentially deal 160% of Attack Damage in AoE around the initial target with a crit.
It might be problematic when used for pushing especially on gp as he has the ultimate to split push.
However this can be restricted by either counting in only the base AD or the bonus AD for the crit.
But let me show you with math why it would be a very welcomed change.

Math:
Assuming 175AD: (175 * 1.6 )deals 280 dmg, that's +105 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.
300AD: (300 * 1.6 )deals 480 dmg,that's +180 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.

With base AD:
Assuming 100 base AD,75 bonus AD:
160% of 100 is 160 dmg.
60% of 175 is 105. 105+160= 265 dmg. that's +90 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.
In this case only the base dmg can crit which is then added to the overall AD dmg.
Resulting in lower dmg increase.
Also note 100 base AD is usually reached at late game.So a potential exploit of crit chance in this case is minimal,impossible.
All in all here the crit strike dmg is tied to level thus can scale into late game where as hp regen might be very well worthless especially how hydra's passive works with lifesteal.

With bonus AD:
Assuming 100 base AD,75 bonus AD:
160% of 75 is 120 dmg.
60% of 175 is 105 dmg. 120+105 = 225 dmg. that's +50 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.This seems to be perfect,
However additional AD ,let's say 50 results in:
100 base AD,125 bonus AD
160% of 125 is 200 dmg.
60% of 225 is 135 dmg. 200 + 135 = 335 dmg. that's +110 dmg on every crit strike in AoE.
Here "only" 50 AD resulted in huge dmg boost compared to the bonus 75 AD calculation,however it needs more AD to get the same effect as when counting in all AD.
So both version can be chosen to restrict the dmg.

Another thing to note is that the dmg DECAYS DOWN TO 20% near the edge.Which means only those who are VERY close the initial target will be hit with the full effect of crit strike dmg.


Overall changing the item path on Tiamat from Pickaxe + Long Sword + Rejuvenation Bead + Rejuvenation Bead to Pickaxe + Avarice Blade would be awesome.While this way Tiamat would not grant hp regen it would solve the expensiveness part of the item because of the passives on Avarice Blade.
Also vamp scepter with avarice blade would go well together.

That's it,a test on PBE would be very nice.
The health regen kind of synergizes with the sustain the item gives, though I wouldn't miss it.

It would be nice to have more things to build an Avarice Blade into, but I'm a bit worried that giving the item crit chance in the recipe would overly limit who uses it.


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turulHAARP

Senior Member

03-26-2013

I don't quite understand the latest change to Hydra.
V3.04:

  • Combine cost reduced to 200 from 400 (total cost reduced to 3300 from 3500).
  • Life steal increased to 12% from 10%.
Would somebody explain it what was the point of the changes?The cost reduce is great though in my opinion there was nothing wrong with the recipe cost instead the cost of Tiamat was/is too high for me.But on the other hand i can see this change work out...

But that lifesteal buff?I really don't understand.It's nice, the item was already gold efficient now it is even more efficient but...what?


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