League System Promotion Games LP Loss

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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Ok, so a problem i have noticed with the League system, is that.

You still lose 20 LP per game during promotion series (or around that) regardless of how you MMR has affected your LP gains to reach the promotion series.

That is to say, if you won 10 games in a row, gaining on average 3 LP per game to get from 70, to 100 LP, and have the right to try and promote. When you lose your promotion games, you still lose 15+ LP.

This is despite a recent change where when NOT at 100 LP, your gains and losses of LP are at similar levels.

Is this intended? By making a player lose this much LP, when their previous gains were very small?

It means that player who got 3LP per game for a win, has now lost about 10 games worth of LP for a division promotional series (lost 2-0) or 15 games worth of LP for teir promotion series (lost 3-0)

It just doesnt make sense, nor is it fair at all.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Bump, does anybody know why this is?


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Bump


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

bump


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kspksp

Senior Member

02-26-2013

It's intended; that way, when you lose your promotion series, you have to start at 70-90 LP again and work towards another promotion series.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kspksp View Post
It's intended; that way, when you lose your promotion series, you have to start at 70-90 LP again and work towards another promotion series.
70-90 yes, but 30-60?
This just happened to me in-fact. Lost the first 3 games of my promotion from Bronze I to Silver V, after cruising at an average 25 LP gain per win (at 80 lp i gained 13, and then 7 to get from 93-100 LP for promotion sereis)
But those 3 loses put me back down to 52.

Now, it doesnt make sense. Im still gaining +25-30 LP per win, which is quite above average, but when I am nearing 100 LP my gains, as well as losses, are lowered. Why then shouldnt my losses be lowered during a promotion series, where i AM at 100 LP?


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

See 70-90 is ok.

I just dropped to 52 LP, after losing 3 games in my promotion series from Bronze I to Silver V.

I gain an above average 25 LP per game, except when i neared 100 LP ONLY in this particular occasion, where at 80 LP, my next gain was 13, to 93, and the one following was 7, to 100.

If i lost a game after getting to 93, i expect it, as i understand the system, for me to not lose any more than, 15 LP or so, cause the system lessons both gains and losses.

But why doesnt it do it at 100 LP? 3 losses, at reduced LP losses, wouldnt drop me 50 points, it would drop me, and others, into the range of 70-90. 3 losses, at full LP loss, dropped me to 52 LP.

I fail to understand the reasoning between losing small amounts of LP at 99 LP if you have been gaining small amounts. yet if you have been gaining smaller amount at 80-99 LP, the second you reach 100, its completely irrelevant, and you lose LP and alot of it.


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the treekicker

Senior Member

02-26-2013

It has to do with your MMR rating (which i think using mmr is total **** btw) but I'm guessing you don't have a huge w/l ratio so I'm guessing that losing your promotion matches made the system think you weren't ready or didn't deserve it so it put you down much lower

I have been currently played ranked 3's with friends and in our promos we have been facing diamond teams which is absolutely ridiculous considering we were gold 5....


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True Sol

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Look @ season 3 FAQs for "clamping". It's what happens when you reach the top of a tier and are up for promotion. Your LP are lowered to make you "prove" you belong in Silver I. Once you pass a threshold for MMR you'll rise more easily. Just keep winning more than you lose (or even keep 50/50) and you'll get there again soon enough.

As for why you dropped down to 52? Well that's pretty reasonable. You should be gaining/losing 18-20 LP. You lost 3 in a row when you were at 100. So that's 3*18 = 54. So that should have put you at 100-54 = 46. You ended up at 52, so Riot was actually lenient with you. You were only losing 16 per game during your promotion, so just keep playing.

For example, if you go 2-3 during your promotion you'll only be roughly 1-2 games away from resecuring your promotion. It doesn't make sense for you to be able to lose 3 games in a row and then only have to win one more to get back into the promotion. You have to earn it.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by the treekicker View Post
It has to do with your MMR rating (which i think using mmr is total **** btw) but I'm guessing you don't have a huge w/l ratio so I'm guessing that losing your promotion matches made the system think you weren't ready or didn't deserve it so it put you down much lower

I have been currently played ranked 3's with friends and in our promos we have been facing diamond teams which is absolutely ridiculous considering we were gold 5....
I win bout 4 games for every loss. I however, seem to consistently lose when it comes to promotion games. Getting the promotion is no problem, its as easy as a knife through butter. Im gaining LP very very fast.
Promotion matches go wrong for a variety of reasons, from throws to leavers to trolls, to me just having a bad game. Thats not my point though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Sol View Post
Look @ season 3 FAQs for "clamping". It's what happens when you reach the top of a tier and are up for promotion. Your LP are lowered to make you "prove" you belong in Silver I. Once you pass a threshold for MMR you'll rise more easily. Just keep winning more than you lose (or even keep 50/50) and you'll get there again soon enough.

As for why you dropped down to 52? Well that's pretty reasonable. You should be gaining/losing 18-20 LP. You lost 3 in a row when you were at 100. So that's 3*18 = 54. So that should have put you at 100-54 = 46. You ended up at 52, so Riot was actually lenient with you. You were only losing 16 per game during your promotion, so just keep playing.

For example, if you go 2-3 during your promotion you'll only be roughly 1-2 games away from resecuring your promotion. It doesn't make sense for you to be able to lose 3 games in a row and then only have to win one more to get back into the promotion. You have to earn it.
I know what clamping is, if you read my post, i said I gained pretty much 30 LP every WIN, and lost only 15-20 LP every loss.
Does that not mean my MMR is quite high?
Also, at 80 LP, i got clamped, and only gained 13, Then i gained 7. to make 100.
Wouldnt that mean, seeing as LP clamping also LOWERS the amount of LP you lose, that i should only be losing 7-15 LP per loss. If I was at 99 LP, I would only lose that much. Why lose more just cause im 100?

Im noting saying you should only win 1 game to get back into promotion. Im saying that, you LP losses should take into account the clamping you experienced, and will again experience as you get back up.

That is to say. i got clamped from 30 LP gains to 13 LP gains. Thus after losing said promotion series, it should take into account this clamping, and put you at a similar distance away from your next promotion series. Not 1 game away. But certainly not 50 LP away.

I should be gainign 18-20 LP if my MMR was correct. Its not, hence why i gain 25-30. also hence why i lose 15-20. With clamping in effect, that means i gain 10-20, and lose 5-15, or something along those lines, correct?

For example, a player, who from 50 LP to 100 LP, has only gained 5-10 LP per win, and only lost 5-10 LP per loss, due to clamping.
He/she finally makes a promotion series. and loses the first 3 games. Now, if hes only gaining 5-10 LP per game before that, and losing the same amount, he should drop to 70-85 LP. That would still take him 3-7 games to re-qualify for a promotion series.

However, as the current system works, he/she will drop that 18/20 lp per game, and get to around 40-60 LP, and then have to play for again clamped gains.
I mean, seriously?
If your LP gains and Losses are clamped, why are they not clamped at 100 LP. They should be clamped. If they are clamped, they put you 3-7 games away from another series, because your still clamped. If your not clamped, you are now 7-20 games away from a series because the clamping is still active, but your loss of LP didnt take it into account.


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