Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


[Rework] Sivir the Blade Mistress

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

3mptylord

Senior Member

02-25-2013

*Battle, not Blade. -_-

Sivir lacks a theme. She's a bland champion whose arguably under powered (at least in the current meta). She's had mini-reworks in the past, but they haven't really done anything to improve her theme. She feels like a random selection of skills. In case you can't see where I'm going with this - the point of my rework was to give her a theme. I chose (Mercenary) Leader. She's a captain. She leads her team into battle. Yes, she has a sort of supporty kit - but it's 100% offensive, and she has to build like a carry to make the most of it.

While pros will probably figure out a way to abuse her potential and play her as a 0cs duo lane ("support&quot, I designed her to be an AD Carry that helps.

Think of it like a kit designed around Raise Morale (the old Raise Morale, back when it sacrificed a minion).

Quote:
623552 Rally
On a champion kill or assist, Sivir rallies nearby allies for 6 seconds. On minion kill, Sivir rallies nearby allies for 3 seconds. Rallied allies gain 12% of Sivir's total attack damage. Rallied allies within a certain range of Sivir will interact with her abilities.
  • ACTIVATION RADIUS: 1000
  • LEASH RADIUS: 1125
  • NOTE: Rally will put a visual indicator on affected targets, such as an symbol beneath them or a mark above their head. This mark will turn grey if they go out of range.


Quote:
623553 Q: Onslaught
ACTIVE: Sivir hurls a crossblade toward the target location, dealing physical damage to enemies it passes through. Nearby rallied champions also hurl a crossblade toward the same location. Enemies take only 20% damage from additional crossblades.
  • PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 50% bonus AD)
  • RANGE: 900
  • COOLDOWN: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6
  • COST: 70 mana


Quote:
623554 W: Spell Shield
PASSIVE: Sivir benefits from bonus attack damage.
  • BONUS ATTACK DAMAGE: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25

ACTIVE: Sivir protects herself with a spell shield for 3 seconds, which will block the next harmful ability. If an ability is blocked, the passive bonus is doubled and Sivir rallies nearby allies for 6 seconds.
  • BONUS ATTACK DAMAGE: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25
  • COOLDOWN: 22 / 19 / 16 / 13 / 10
  • COST: 50 mana


Quote:
623555 E: Lacerate
ACTIVE: Sivir's next attack deals increased damage and reduces her target's armor by 20% for 3 seconds. Nearby rallied champions also gain Lacerate on their next attack. The armor reduction does not stack.
  • DAMAGE MODIFIER: 30% / 35% / 40% / 45% / 50%
  • COOLDOWN: 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 / 3
  • OR: 7 seconds, reduced by 1 second for every Lacerate to strike an enemy
  • COST: 45 mana


Quote:
623556 R: On The Hunt
ACTIVE: Sivir gains bonus attack speed and 20% bonus movement speed for 10 seconds.

For the next 10 seconds, Sivir will grant Empowered Rally to nearby allies. Allies keep the bonuses for the remaining duration. Empowered Rally grants 20% bonus movement speed and half Sivir's attack speed bonus as well as Rally's standard effects. Additionally, nearby rallied minions will attack Sivir's attack target. Sivir gains any gold those minions earn while under her control.
  • SELF ATTACK SPEED BONUS: 30% / 45% / 60%
  • ALLY ATTACK SPEED BONUS: 15% / 22.5% / 30%
  • AURA RADIUS: 1000
  • COOLDOWN: 100 / 90 / 80
  • COST: 100 mana


EDIT:
Quote:
IronStyus:
Something I think that's an opportunity with Sivir is to solidify a personality in her. Much like our more overt characters like you've stated, Sivir needs some personality landmarks. If she's a mercenary, then maybe we mix some Xena with some Han Solo. Maybe we take a bit of Laura Croft in the sort of woman-of-status turned vigilante/adventurer. If she has a sort of "charge!" mentality. Maybe we figure out how to amplify that.

There's a lot of fertile ground with Sivir in that she's largely a bank slate. That's really good actually, it means we have a lot of room to play and to slot her into a more fitting faction possibly, or maybe just giving her more significance in her current faction.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The5lacker

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Funny, didn't know Sivir was a support all of the sudden.

All in all, a needlessly complex rework of a simple champion, completely changing her role and leaving her about as useful as before. If you want to make an AD support, just make an original AD support, don't try and justify it by tearing apart a champion to do it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

3mptylord

Senior Member

02-25-2013

She would probably classify as a "support carry", an AD equivalent to the "support mages" like Lux and Morgana. She would have a viable carry and support. However, I don't think she'd wouldn't work in the current 0CS support meta because she is too item dependent. Until some pro manipulates the meta to suit her perfectly (well, non-pros will do it first but it'll take a pro for people to accept it) - she would work best as a carry; where she can get all the gold she needs.

Even as a carry she would work well with AD supports (such as Jarvan), or even some of the less conventional "troll" support picks such as Gangplank and Ashe (or an AD assassin like Xin Zhao).

Perhaps she'll be the perfect support/carry for an Melee Carry?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The5lacker

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
3mptylord:
Funny, I don't remember changing her into a support.

In case the last line confused you - I said she would lane well WITH AD supports, not as an AD support. While yes, she has auras - she always did. My goal was to make her a captain - she leads her team into battle (not directly, obviously, she is not an initiator). This suits her lore, and I personally think it's an interesting mechanic (and it's not *that* complicated).

So you're telling me that your version of her kit isn't composed 100% of support abilities?
...
Have you looked at what you've wrote? She's basically a 100% pile of buffs right now. And not self buffs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

3mptylord

Senior Member

02-25-2013

No, no 100% support abilities.

Her innate, yes, only directly buffs her allies. However, like Brand's Blaze, Sivir benefits from having nearby buffed allies. So it's both a self-buff and an ally-buff. The ally-buff was only really added to compensate them staying in the fray. The AD-share scales with her AD (when I drafted this idea I intended for her to be a carry, and percentile scalings mean she has to build it to share it).

Her Q is entirely a selfish skill. It's a skill shot that deals damage, and Sivir deals more damage the more skill shots she throws. It's a similar cast style to Lulu's Glitterlance (where a second bolt fires from Pix) and all the damage remains credited to Sivir. This skill doesn't enable or disabled - it's just a damaging skill. To refer to my previous comment, this is an example of how Sivir benefits from having her allies rather than benefiting her allies.

Her Spell Shield (W) is another selfish skill. Well, as selfish as mitigating damage from yourself can be. Of course she could intercept skill shots for her allies. The AD steroid was added because I disliked how our older champions felt mana-wise versus newer champions. While the whole "high cost, low pool and a skillful way of avoiding costs" is good for gameplay (like Annie, Nunu, Twisted Fact, Malzahar, Cho'Gath, etc), compared to all the newer champions - these champions just feel far too punished for using one ability badly. Oh well, there goes all my mana.

Her E, yes, a support spell. Her second of four (so far). However, it's also a self buff. In a fight, every couple of seconds she buffs her entire team's next attack. She feels like a commander. Attack! Attack! Attack! Yes, it's a support skill; but we currently don't really have any supports who "feel" like that - so I apologize if you dislike me claiming she's a carry that leads, rather than a support that follows.

Her R is her current ultimate although reworded to suit her new kit. It's a giant AOE steroid. Yes, a support skill.

To be honest, Sivir can currently block skill shots for allies and grant a hell of a lot of movement speed and attack speed. Aside from her passive, which is just a build in Zeke's Herald (and frankly benefits her just as much as it benefits her allies) - she's as much as support as she is now. Feel free to interpret that how you wish.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The5lacker

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
3mptylord:
How is her kit 100% composed of support abilities? I'll grant you that Rally is a support ability (a sort of support-version of Blaze or Challenge) that doesn't benefit herself DIRECTLY - but her damage output benefits from her passive. Remove Rally and her kit is a fairly standard ADC kit (poke, steroids and on-hit effects)... Rally just adds to her commander-theme.

(Passive - Allied Buff): Whenever Sivir scores a kill, champion assist, blocks an ability with Spell Shield or while On The Hunt is active, nearby allies receive Rally - which increases their attack damage.
(Q - Direct Damage): Sivir throws a skill shot. Nearby allies also throw a skill shot - this increases Sivir's area of effect and damage output (the indirect buff from Rally). Like Lulu's Glitterlance, except up to 5 times.
(W - Self Buff/Spell Shield): Sivir gets more AD and can block abilities, which doubles the free AD. Blocking an ability also triggers Rally, which means nearby allies also benefit from her increased AD and it means she can counter their poke with multiple Qs.
(E - On-hit effect): Sivir's next attack is more powerful and shreds. Rallied allies also get this on their next attack. At the moment, the shred doesn't stack - although it would add an incentive to attack the same target if it did, which could be a good thing.
(R - Massive Steroid Aura): Same as Sivir's current ultimate, except that it utilizes her new Rally mechanic (which means her Q and E are empowered for the next 10 seconds as well). She also controls minions - meaning more damage for her.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're reading if you think this kit is solely composed of support abilities that don't benefit Sivir.

...You literally just compared her Q to a SUPPORT'S SUPPORT ABILITY.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

3mptylord

Senior Member

02-25-2013

I compared the cast style. I apologize that there were no other similar spells to choose from.

Using someone else as a stepping stone to reach your actual target: Dark Wind, Bouncing Blade, Double Up, Spirit Shield and Conflagration? I guess Runaan's Hurricane can? Double Up or Bouncing Blade are probably the closest (as they are pseudo-skill shots) - but Glitterlance is the only true skill shot that piggybacks off of someone else.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ElementSteel

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
3mptylord:
I was comparing its cast-style... as you well know.

Yes, Lulu is a support, but Glitterlance is not a "support ability". The official classification for "support" is anything that shields/heals an ally or scouts (although scouting is being phased out as a support mechanic). Glitterlance is an offensive spell on a support, not a support spell.

For sake of arguing (because that's what's fun these days...), Lulu's Glitterlance has a slow, a very potent one at that, so it's not a pure offensive spell. 80% slow says that it is a support ability. Don't try and use it as an example of a non-support skill anymore.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

3mptylord

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Many champions have crowd control. Cho'Gath's rupture has a 75% slow that decays over 3 seconds - much better than Lulu. I have another thread discussion that issues with the word "support", which means many different things in different contexts. The attribute definition of support is "anyone who heals or shields" (for example, Blitzcrank and Leona aren't tagged as supports); however, the meta defines support as "anyone who enables". Enabling isn't "officially" a support mechanic; and frankly, it shouldn't be. It's a team game - virtually everything should be a "support" mechanic. On aforementioned thread, I proposed two new tags: Guardian and Enabler. Enabling is a good support mechanic, but enabling =/= support.

But this is beside the point. Sivir's Q doesn't enable.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ElementSteel

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
3mptylord:
Gangplank's Parrrley and Shaco's Backstab also apply a slow. Crowd control (usually) qualifies as an enabler - which is an offensive quality. It still not a support skill.

Grog-Soaked Blade and Two-Shiv Poison are the slows, not the two you brought up. Get your facts straight so I can take you seriously.

Anyway, how destructive are these slows? 30% at most for Shaco, and 21% at most for Gangplank. Lulu's starts at EIGHTY, that's 8 and 0, PERCENT. Yes, that's an enabler, allowing her to be an offensive support.


123