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Ryze ult Rework

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thefifeman

Senior Member

02-25-2013

TL;DR Change ult to toggle burning %maxHealth in exchange for more %mana to damage, plus what came with the original.

The Problem:

Ryze currently has one of the most under-powered ultimates in the game. (At least until large teamfights break out)

It gives him short bursts of minor sustain, and a little movement speed. At no point do you get any damage out of it, unless he’s actually in a teamfight, which is why, when I play him, I find myself playing extra safe when my lane opponent hits 6. Any other champion has some sort of damage boosting ult, most of them actually providing their primary source of damage, giving them a large advantage over Ryze at the same level.

On top of this, I feel the term Desperate Power doesn’t suit the ult’s use, as nothing is being sacrificed (not even mana) and it’s not really used in desperate situations, nor is it a desperate attempt at gaining power, since no power is really gained. I think the ult needs a quality of life rework, representing some sort of mad-man’s-gambit for power at any cost.

The last problem I have with Ryze in general, is that he is one of the only characters who uses Tear of the Goddess as a core item, but he’s one of the most frustrating characters in the game to farm it up with. He has only one ability that he can use without anyone around, and it’s got a comparably long cooldown compared to Tear’s, meaning farming it involves Q'ing a creapwave until it's pushed to oblivion. Many other champions have spammable abilities that they can use while walking or whatever to farm up Tear in less than 5 minutes. As the most profitable user of Tear, why does Ryze not have some sort of quick Tear farming tool as well?

The Proposition:

I want to change up his ult into a toggled skill that burns his own health in exchange for power, namely Spellvamp, Movespeed, and AOE damage (just like current ult), as well as adding some mana as magic damage to all his spells. This toggling would set off his passive’s global cooldown, but using it in this way would hamper his damage in the off times.

This gives his ult more of a feel of a desperate gambit in return for power that I feel the ult’s fluff was intended for. The toggle also makes it such that he can farm up a Tear significantly more easily, making for a much less frustrating early game.

The proposed numbers:

I would start by taking the mana scaling of his Overload (Q) down to 4.5% from 6.5%, his Rune Prison (W) down to 3.5% from 4.5%, and leave his Spell Flux (E) as it stands at 1%. I would also buff his early base damage to account for it, up to 70/95/115/140/160 from 60/85/110/135/160. I feel his early game is just about right, and this accurately makes up for the loss of 2% of his maximum mana, given a sapphire crystal at the start of the game. Rune Prison and Spell Flux I would keep as is, the loss of damage isn’t significant enough to warrant changes to base damage. All of this is because I would change his ult to add on 2% of his max mana in magic damage to ALL of his spells. His overload would go to pre-nerf levels, but his other skills would get a small buff, resulting in a net gain of about 40-80 damage across all of his spells, and resulting in his E with the AOE damage hitting for an extra roughly 240 damage to all targets if all the bounces are very close (taken off of 4000 mana)

Now, why am I nerfing his Q only to make up for it with his ult? The ult would be on a toggle, with a 1 second cooldown to ensure damage is taken. For those of you who know Nidalee and her Pounce or Elise and her Spiderform, you know you can super quick farm a Tear with such a spammable ability. The added early game mana from the significantly quicker farming of Tear would make his Q deal more relative damage at the same level as the old Ryze, so long as he has his ult up.

BUT FIFE! THE CURRENT RYZE’s DEEPS WERE THE SHIZ, WHY U GIVE MOAR?!?!?!?

The damage buff comes at the cost of burning his own health at the same time, I feel to the tune of 2% max health per second. The cooldown would be 1 second after turning it on, and 4 seconds after turning it off, not subject to CDR, but subject to change upon playtesting. Such a high cost keeps him from abusing the movespeed boost, and makes it such that he still can’t farm up a Tear without risk. Nid, Elise, and any other quick Tear farming champ can’t get as much use out of it as a Ryze can, and, as such, he shouldn’t be able to do so without a little risk. I would keep his movespeed the same, and nerf his spellvamp to the tune of 5% less at all levels (10/15/20%), keeping him away from being a mobile battlestation of never-dying continuous spells, and making him a little more of a burst-y bruiser.

I would also nerf his AOE damage at early levels, dropping it to 20/35/50% damage to surrounding units. With his current ult, as soon as he got it he could farm an entire creep wave in a second, but only once every minute or so. No other champion has the creep melting power of ryze at level 6, but because of how good for farming the current version is, I feel trading cooldown for AOE damage is needed. This way he can’t just melt every creepwave he finds starting at level 6, but he can still farm as effectively as many other champions. At later levels, almost carry can melt a creepwave in seconds, so I’m returning him to the original damage potential, letting him keep up with champs like Annivia, Veigar, Lux, Ziggs, etc…

Summary:

These changes make his character feel more like the sustained damage AP carry the original designers meant him to be, while still keeping with the theme of health sustain and AOE damage. This change also allows for a fluid use of the Tear of the Goddess, making the item less of a frustrating “I need to sit in lane and farm this against minions, pushing my lane hardcore” item.

This also changes his level 18 farming from being able to annihilate a creepwave one second, to farming like a level 5 AD carry the next. Overall, he’ll feel more fluid and less frustrating to work with.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Interesting ideas, but wrong forum. If you want riot to take your idea seriously, please repost this in the proper location.

As a side note, a loooong time ago, in a season before ninjas, i once had similar issues with Malphite's Ult. At the time, unstoppable force was very...well...stoppable. You could snare him with all kinds of stuns traps slows ect mid ult during the charge. I lobbied in the appropriate forums to either cgange the mechanic or change the name. Not saying my thread had anything to do with riots decision, but once they finally got around to reworking malph, his charge was unstoppable...for reals now.


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Theungry

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Honestly my gut reaction to your post is that it would be really weird to do anything to buff Ryze since he's one of the few AP mid's who is still highly effective in season 3 because he can build tanky and still deal both crazy AP and AD damage.

Also, I'm unclear how having an ult that is mostly for team-fights is a negative.

Edit- you'll also get a lot more consistent damage out of Ryze if you use offensive/mana masteries instead of investing in Defense to honor guard, and building a manamune instead of archangel's staff (you can AA after ever 2nd ability in his combo and your overall damage goes up nicely).


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thefifeman

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Quote:
Theungry:
Honestly my gut reaction to your post is that it would be really weird to do anything to buff Ryze since he's one of the few AP mid's who is still highly effective in season 3 because he can build tanky and still deal both crazy AP and AD damage.

Also, I'm unclear how having an ult that is mostly for team-fights is a negative.


The thing that I'm trying to do here is give him a quality of life upgrade.His entire kit is designed to be able to do sustained damage, much like an AD carry, but his ability to farm is severely lacking unless he pops his ult, which he can only do every 20 to 30 seconds at best. Many other AP carries have AOE abilities that they can spam and wipe out entire creep waves in the blink of an eye, then move on to do it again 2 seconds later. THIS is the problem that I have with Ryze.

His Ult just doesn't feel like it fits his character, and it has a tendency to gimp him as a laning character since he doesn't have the power jump so many other AP carries have as soon as they get it.

The proposed numbers provide a little more risk to using it, and give him only small, mostly fluidity solving, buffs, coupled with overall small nerfs. His power shouldn't change much with my rework, only solve choppiness and fluff issues.

TL;DR I'm not saying his ult is worthless, only that it doesn't fit his kit and that it's early game use is negligible when compared to so many other champ's.


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