For against mages item

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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

02-24-2013

I propose an item to have a unique passive brainsurge: decrease cdr to 50%.

Now why do we have 50% cdr because achieving 40% is pretty easy considering many item has it. Now listen If you are the type of champ that get cdr anyway to max this item will only do 10% against you. For those player who play without cdr mages will get hit pretty hard.

For this example i will use 10 and 100 sec.
10sec will go to 15sec cdr
100sec will go to 150sec cd if used next to the said champ wearing this item

Now for those who get 40% anyway
10sec will be 11sec
100sec will be 110 sec

as you can see this item passive will only hit those mages who want to build pure Ability power without cdr.

Now i was debating whether or not this item should be aura based with large area or simply being a upon spell damg hit debuff of 15 sec.

again this doesnt hurt mage directly but does hurt their ability to spam as much similar to Frozen heart. If you think this is OP please do tell me because for it to actully work you would have to be dumb enough to do huddle up and spam away.

The reason to why i did not add any gold or item value or not because I want you guys/or riots to decide for me where the numbers should be.


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awkwardbowman

Senior Member

02-24-2013

I think you're saying that you have an item that has an on-hit effect on enemies that gives them this cdr reduction.

So what you want is to create a single item that completely negates the CD of up to 3 items in your opponents build...?

That just soundsl ike a mess.


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thefifeman

Senior Member

02-24-2013

CDR functions based on what your cdr was at time of casting. Having it be an aura would be perfectly functionable. Other than that, I think 50% is FAR too rough. I feel 20% would be more viable, just as Frozen Heart drops AS by 20%.


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-25-2013

The problem with that is that Cooldown reduction isn't a mage stat - it's an everyone stat. Because every champion has abilities, and every champion has abilities with cooldowns. What this would probably do is cause champions with ~120 second ultimates to only have their ultimate in every other team fight instead of every team fight, not just limit the frequency abilities can be cast in a fight. Which wouldn't cause such an aura to be anti-mage, it would be detrimental to just about every champion. Not to mention non-mage champions spam abilities about as frequently as mage champions.

Which makes that item idea generally bad - it's intended purpose doesn't fit its function - also, 33% slower cooldown times it substantially more potent than 20% attack speed slows Frozen Heart offers, and having such a universal defensive stat would turn it into a must-buy item, if nothing else because it would be to powerful.


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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

02-25-2013

which is why i am suggesting perhap a spell damg Such as Physical damg to Thornmail. Instead of spell damg to you return damg just a debuff of 10 sec that increase cdr perhap what 67 chrome a 33% slower cooldown. Sounds better and it does refresh when spell damg is applied again. So that only those that has spell damg ability is affected.

Another idea spawn on my head was 20% reduced spell damg output similiar to sona powerchord W. So in essence it does the same thing as cdr but with reduce damg. and it can be the same as spell damg on hit. so in essence your first spell is not affected but everything else does.


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awkwardbowman

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Still having it trigger off of spell damage would make it so it's not just against mages since a lot of other champions deal mixed damage.


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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

well this is the best way to put it. Unless if your gonna contradict me that Thornmail hurt mages because they build ap and lich bane and auto hit me when TM return damage. It reduces their spell damg output even if they are mixed they still have true damg and physical damg to use from. Just because im trying to find a really good item counter against mages that already build SO much magic pen negate all magic resist item. is somehow broken ? is somehow trying to keep tank tank no. im jsut trying to find that sweet spot to hard counter mages that has been uncontested with no true counter (with removal of FON) they are on the rise. Like riot already been going around nerfin sustain and physical damg (new armor item) ap magic damg nuker have been running around carrying H20 bomb its time that we reflect that so that it butt hurt them so that a counter is a counter. And like i said it only does 20% reduce magic damg output so that still an effective 80% damg still happening

ANd you know what im ready for changes for the entire game... we have still been in this meta for far too long we need something fresh new to bring to table S3 just basically said no more FON no more BT high scale no more High hp high regen **** that is now nerfed to hell. Annnndddd with the increase of magic pen and other ap caster item there no counter against them. I can be the biggest MR tank but i still will die just as easy to mages now i must go to bed storming off


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon14th View Post
im jsut trying to find that sweet spot to hard counter mages that has been uncontested with no true counter (with removal of FON) they are on the rise.
First off, hard-countering an entire class with 1 item is pretty lame. Secondly, mages tend to be useful for the whole "they pressed R and won a team fight", which generally involves dealing widespread damage in an AoE with a possible nasty CC applied in tandem, so the best counter there would likely be an item that grants MR and possibly some CC reduction in an aura, not something that effects cooldowns. When you impact cooldowns, you make champions like Fiora considerably more useless - what with her Lunge and Blade Waltz already having long enough cooldowns to not be there when needed often enough to actually need CDR. Champions you wouldn't impact at all with a CDR aura would be ones like Anivia, who have an on-demand win fights ultimate with only mana costs and enough distance in her burst she can catch a team, burst down a target, and have no use for her abilities when their on extended timers.

Force of Nature being removed only effects tanks and bruisers, it doesn't instantly make mages more viable. Also, Runic Bulwark grants 60 MR, so it's not like there isn't solid tanky MR items available. Runic Bulwark actually offers the MR in an aura as well - which is nice, because most magic damage is inflicted in an area-of-effect or focused on someone that doesn't build tank items. In season 2 Frozen Heart was considered infinity better than Thornmail due to offering an aura that helps your team - which makes Bulwark arguably better in comparison to Force of Nature as well.

For everyone else, the number of magic resistance items has improved. AD champions can get Mercurial Scimitar in addition to Maw of Malmortis and Wit's End. AP champions have the option to get Twin Shadows and Meakial's Crucible in addition to Athene's Unholy Grail and Abyssal Scepter. And as far as pure survivability goes, Spirit Visage has great synergy with Warmog's Armor. As for the complaint on a lack of regeneration items, Spirit Visage's bonus healing effects applies to passive health regeneration (in addition to the Warmog's passive), so you can get plenty of regeneration there.

Beyond that the unique passivies and actives on magic resistance are universally effective against essentially every AP scaling champion - even if they have a lot of magic penetration. Banshee's Veil can block more than a third of a burst rotation, Mercury Treads are still as useful as ever, Hexdrinker/Maw generate an HP shield, Quicksilver Sash /Scimitar can remove just about any debuff in the game - and most of those unique effects are useful regardless of whether you're taking sustained magic damage or burst damage. You know what items aren't? Armor items - armor items more or less exclusively target auto-attackers (sustained damage), offering unique passives that are almost completely worthless against any AD burst.

Finally, flat magic penetration is actually hard-countered by magic resistance, so mages absolutely must get Void Staff to penetrate enough magic resistance to actually make picking up magic resistance a bad idea. And considering the general flow of the game, that's usually major item #3 - which gives you around 80% of a typical game as a period were mages aren't any better at countering magic resistance then they were in season 2. (50 magic penetration against a target with 50 MR will cause you to deal 50% more damage. 50 magic penetration against a target with 200 MR will cause you to deal 20% more damage. That's an exceptionally good dynamic for getting magic resistance to counter mages).

In all, I've never really had trouble counter-building against AP champions. The only ones that are really hard to deal with are the ones that get horrendously fed, though at that point having them not carry their team to victory as an AP Carry would be more a sign of unviability or making game-throwing mistakes over a lack of item counters. The champions that happen to be a pain to counter-build are on-hit champions and especially AD casters, as whatever defenses you grab (outside of health) tends to be halfway useless against such damage outputs.


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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

ok 67chrome i read your post and you just spawn another idea in my head what if an item that is on active absorbing 30% of all magic damg dealt in a 10 sec window to be release at the end not as damg but as healing to every ally champ in the area as in aura unique only to have that summoner spell heal debuff applied.

It can have an animation of a lightning aoe with green/purple pulse with the user in the center of it moving with him

This can be build out of ageis something like Ageis+catalyst protector.

Or the active could be change to redirecting 30% magic damg to you as the user to release it as aoe healing divided amoung the allied champ in the area in a 10 sec window


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Dragoon14th

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

I wonder how this item do well against karthus /or nunu ult


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