What Burden of Knowledge actually is.

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Uccisore

Senior Member

10-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by FennecFoxx View Post
Burden of Knowledge is something that you can't Explain how to counter in less then 5 words Simple...
.
You just made that up. Not even close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogmarz View Post
Ehh sorta. I think you killed your argument by saying Veigar's stun is an example, because it's not. It's clear to the victim that running into the edge stuns you. There's no "burden" where the user must research the ability to better react to it.
I still think the idea of 'research' is a misunderstanding of what Burden of Knowledge is. It's more about the fact that when, how, and if the target gets stunned is based on the target's behavior as much/more than Veigar's use of the ability. The visual making it obvious makes the BoK easier to manage, but 'figure it out' isn't the essence of the anti-pattern.

Quote:
Compare this to maybe something like Morgana's ult, where the victim would need to know that running out of range breaks the tether, or Taric's stun where you would need to research the skill to know that the optimal way to react is by staying closer to Taric so the duration is shorter.
I agree with the Morgana example, but not the Taric one. In the case of Morgana's ult, being able to break it by running away is BoK because 'running away' is something only the victim can do, so the design effort that went into that counter is wasted whenever the victim doesn't understand this.

In the case of Taric's stun, it lasting longer the further they are from Taric is something Taric can manipulate as much as the victim through his own positioning, so that design isn't nearly as wasted if the target doesn't know what's going on. So there's a tiny amount of BoK there maybe, but designing the stun length based on Taric's distance from the target is rarely wasted.

Tryndamere's slow would be a good example of BoK- I'd say 90% of the time when that ability is used, the target is going to be running away from Trynd, so it would be quite rare that the extra design effort that went into making it different than a normal slow actually affects the game.


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Knote

Senior Member

10-30-2010

Rupture adds to the game when people aren't idiots.

That's why it won't work for LoL.


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Uccisore

Senior Member

10-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knote View Post
Rupture adds to the game when people aren't idiots.

That's why it won't work for LoL.
There's already a thread for 'thoughtless *****ing'. This one is for intelligent comments.


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Knote

Senior Member

10-30-2010

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Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
There's already a thread for 'thoughtless *****ing'. This one is for intelligent comments.
But it's true.


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Uccisore

Senior Member

10-30-2010

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Originally Posted by Knote View Post
But it's true.
Then you should be able to back it up somehow, and raise it from the level of 'thoughtless *****ing'.


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Knote

Senior Member

10-30-2010

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Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
Then you should be able to back it up somehow, and raise it from the level of 'thoughtless *****ing'.
I don't need to back it up. Take your own advice and counter me lol.


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Uccisore

Senior Member

10-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knote View Post
I don't need to back it up. Take your own advice and counter me lol.
The problem is, all I can do is say "Rupture 'adding to the game when people aren't idiots' has nothing to do with whether or not it's bad design, or exhibits the "Burden of Knowledge" design anti-pattern. That's already extremely obvious to anybody who actually read my opening post. There's literally nothing to counter because what you said and what I said don't conflict. You just didn't pay enough attention to the OP to know that.


So now I can either copypasta my own opening post here to 'counter' you, or I can type the definition of Burden of Knowledge all over again in slightly different words even though you obviously didn't read it the first time, or I can just stop typing here.


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Onlyashadow

Senior Member

10-30-2010

guildwars is LOADED with what I believe they would call "anti-fun" and "burden of knowledge" misplacements however I've never heard or seen any complaints.


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Uccisore

Senior Member

10-30-2010

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Originally Posted by Onlyashadow View Post
guildwars is LOADED with what I believe they would call "anti-fun" and "burden of knowledge" misplacements however I've never heard or seen any complaints.
Any game with more than three players has complaints. If you haven't seen them, you haven't looked.


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Knote

Senior Member

10-30-2010

Even though I personally don't think a rupture effect would work well in this game (mainly because it requires you to STOP, which isn't something, you EVER do in this game), it would still work as long as they gave it an obvious visual cue like Event Horizon or Soul Shackles right? Otherwise if THAT'S the reason we can't have rupture (or possibly maledict), then Event Horizon and Soul Shackles shouldn't exist either.

Also isn't Tryndamere's shout a lose/lose situation just like Rupture?

You stop to face Tryndamere, he catches up and kills you.

You turn and run, you get slowed and Tryndamere catches up and kills you.