Let's talk about horse sorcery! (AP Hecarim item discussion!)

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Butts McFarts

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Butt's up, guys?

I've been building Hecarim like a caster for quite some time now, starting out as a joke on the Twisted Treeline turned viciously effective. While the build path was pretty linear (Deathcap/Wooglet's, DFG, Mercs/Sorcs, Lich Bane, whatever else feels appropriate) ulting onto the entire enemy team and just about acing them provided plenty of fun...

Then Season Three happened and now there are AP items galore! Since its arrival I'd garnered the confidence to debut AP Hecarim on Summoner's Rift to generally positive effect; while he can't cripple the entire team with ease anymore (jumping into five people is a lot more dangerous, especially when your teammates need to catch up!) the threat of Onslaught reaching behind enemy lines with ease can be enough to cow an enemy's advance, and his capacity to duel and kill skyrockets with an NLR and Sheen. The big problem I've faced lately, though, is evaluating all of the options available for AP champs... Sometimes scooping up as much Ability Power as possible for great, nukey justice isn't the best option. While DFG and Lich Bane will always be my mainstays for Hec, I have a hard time making interesting new choices.

Lately I've had my eye on making Hextech Gunblade a must-have for this gameplan. Given that it scales with AP now, it'd make an interesting component to Hec's combo with the added utility of slowing them down for a bit. It also carries the added bonus of AD, Lifesteal and Spellvamp, so there's the threat of hybrid damage and a notably harder to kill horse. Given that sustained DPS through Spirit of Dread, Rampage and Lich Bane procs are all he has when his ult is down, this might make him much better duelist for the item slot...

And what to make of Malady, Nashor's Tooth and Guinsoo's? The first on the list has had me madly contriving builds and characters to make it dangerous (On more than just Teemo, basically :B) but it doesn't seem effective to just place on an AP caster without any other Attack Speed items or something nuts about their autoattack (Like Orianna). Though not as heavy on the AP and ability to blow people away with nuke, I wonder if combining these in any fashion would make Hec particularly dangerous as an AA-heavy bruiser better-suited for drawn-out battles... Or if the tradeoff of massive W and R damage is simply too much.

I've been hesitant to involve Rylai's and Liandry's as important items due to the fact that almost all of Hec's spell damage is AoE, leading to both lousy slows and not as much burn on Liandry's (especially with the whole burn on DoT bug that's still an issue). Both of them provide great benefits otherwise in the form of health and/or flat magic pen, but considering Hec can't get the most mileage out of their hallmark passives I'm not sure they're a particularly interesting or viable addition.

Twin Shadows is a pretty nifty item for regular ol' Hec because of the silly little active, but it might make for another passable option, as it'll give you something to do with a Kage's (It doesn't really seem like Will of the Ancients would make a stellar option considering you don't exactly operate in the same area as your APC). It's like a longer-range and less-lethal Gunblade in that regard, but it can sniff out any jerks hiding in the brush and it gives Hec a bit of added durability. Shard of True Ice might work too as a utility item, as it keeps its GP10 passive and grants a little bit of extra CC... On the topic of Spellvamp, Spectral Wraiths might be a good option for Magic Hecarim in the jungle, but I've yet to try it.

What say you, forumgoers? Has anyone else out there really put more thought into AP Hecarim than as a troll build? Anyone want to give him a shot now? Let's mingle!


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

02-24-2013

First off, I think this is a terrible idea.

*opens the items page*

But there is a creative urge in me that says I need to figure out a build anyways. Because Hecarim is one of a few champs that doesn't deal much damage with his regular abilities he can play played the same way as AP Malphite. I would say Sunfire Cape is still a good item however, its one of Hecarim's best either way. Then maybe a Abyssal Scepter for a little boost in damage to his ultimate while maintaining a decent balance of defensive stats. Then you have a nice basis for a Lichbane with some AP and durability to help you survive fights early on. Wooglets Deathcap can come in later for its Active to help Hecarim heal off damage with Spirit of Dread. Hecarim is a poor candidate for Rageblade because he isn't an AD/AP DPS either way. Skip it. I would say if you wanted to build a Tear of the Goddess early you could build an Archangels Staff for extra AP as Hecarim would have no trouble getting it to max stacks. Athene's Unholy Grail would also help with Hecarims mana issue, since there is no Crest of the Ancient Golem on Treeline. That could get tossed in whenever. I'm not really sure about AP Hecarim really deviating from AD Hecarims build until at least mid-game. He still needs survivability to initiate. Otherwise he'll just get gibbed when he ults. After he's a little tougher, he can toss in some AP items to boost his late game damage.

GLHF, Food for thought...


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Butts McFarts

Senior Member

02-24-2013

Hahah, it's a terrible idea, for sure, but sometimes AD Offtank Hecarim gets a little stale :P You trade a chunk of survivability and DPS for a team-crippling ult and a bit more burst. With the right teammates Hec can pop both of the enemy carries before Onslaught's fear wears off with his teammates close behind. For example, one of my pals plays Nami, and Tidal Wave + Shureliya's before or during Onslaught will keep the enemy team in bad shape and allow everyone to catch up and protect Hec/clean up whatever's left. It's definitely not a build you wanna take to solo queue, there's a lot more concerted effort needed than vanilla Hec.

Agreed on the Sunfire Cape, I dunno why I forgot to mention it sooner, Hecarim's naked without it. In general going AP with Hec should be indistinguishable from AD until he gets his core, starting with AP outside of Sheen is really inefficient.

The whole AP/AS thing was pretty silly, but all things must be considered for great science!

I've built Athene's on Hec a few times before, on the occasion I had early mana problems, and it's a great item overall. Tear into Archangel's always felt like overkill to me, although it grants great AP and mana I never found him particularly mana-starved by mid and late game. With Athene's you get CDR and a bit more tankiness, I think that's sufficient to keep his spells rolling out.

Speaking of tankiness, what sort of boots would offer the best stats and utility? Normally I opt for early Sorcs if survival's not an issue and Spirit of the Ancient Golem for Tenacity later as a solo top, and Mercs whenever I'm jungling or on TT, or when the above can't be afforded. None of the other options really struck me... And even still, I usually ditch Sorc's if they've stacked MR and get a Void Staff instead...


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

02-25-2013

I went 1/9/something in a bot game on TTL, I felt pretty bad, it just so happened I scored another scrub and I got another loss on my bot record :P

But his ult is still pretty fun I think. I'd say Unholy Grail is a must... gotta get that mana regen. I think you're right about Archangels, Manamune is good on Hecarim, Archangel's isn't so much. I like the idea of Abyssal Scepter though, its a a very strong supportive item and it goes well with Sunfire Cape anyways. I'd say Mercury treads is Hecarim's best set of boots, Tenacity for the win. Spirit of the Ancient Golem is a corny item in my opinion. Spirit of the Lizard Elder is much better for building from Spirit Stone. I think rushing Wooglets is a must, since its active is so OP with Spirit of Dread. That along with Athene's makes for a nicely balanced set of stats with some extra AP for giggles.


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Butts McFarts

Senior Member

02-25-2013

Hey, with the current meta, it's had to say Spirit of the Ancient Golem is worthless :B It's really silly to justify it on AD Hec because Lizard Elder is just so amazing, but on AP Hec it's something to fill out his tanky requisites and thirst for Tenacity. The benefit of early MPen in lane on Summoner's Rift is what usually prompts me to get Sorcs and then Ancient Golem, but really, like other AP carries, it's probably a better idea to just drop 'em and go Mercs come late-game when you've got AP in spades.

Right, holy damn, Abyssal Scepter, how did I not notice that sooner? It's perfect considering all of Hec's magic damage happens close around him.

Okay, so, AP Hecarim: The General Build...

Mercury's Treads
Athene's Unholy Grail
Abyssal Scepter
Sunfire Cape
Lich Bane
Wooglet's Witchcap/Rabadan's Deathcap

With substitutions as fancies tickle. Gentlemen, start your engines.