Karma...should i?

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Mid Is A Feeder

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Support is bad.
Mid lane?

"Oh, you heard I have 100 hp? Dive me. I dare you. I mother ****ing dare you"
She is really, really nice. The shield nukes..
Just 1 thing that needs to be changed is to make her mantra'd tether on an enemy is to root them, like le blancs.

People use her once and are like "wtf shes so bad lololol" and never play her, as well as playing her bot. Shes more of a very utility mage.


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TrollForALiving

Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampmajikk View Post
i think i'll do it. that way when the rework does go through i'll at least have her.
I have this crazy notion that rylais may help her lack of CC situation making her beam a stronger slow.
she does do some pretty cool stuff. I guess i'll pick her up.
CDR is very very important on her. I'd even go so far to use 9/0/21 masteries and I NEVER use that mastery page.

Rylai's is meh, her mantra'd W is already a 40% slow and it doesn't damage the person you target.

It's viable to start with a dolan's ring on her if you're sure you won't get ganked as she has decent sustain. Protip: Do not do this vs rammus or shaco.

RoA/Abyssal/Hourglass/Deathcap/DFG/Grail/WoTA are all pretty good on her.


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Bumboclaat

Senior Member

02-23-2013

You can do what I do, play in mid lane, it's loads of fun, decent range on cone which does decent damage + heals if needed, strong shield to mitigate the burst that you'll usually receive in middle.


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Ayemageyene

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Most supports have kits that make sense in the logic of supporting themselves or someone else. Karma's passive, first of all, depends on TAKING damage AS a support or mage hybrid. That's the first thing that needs to be addressed if Riot is justifying her support role.

Her W depends on an object to be present which is either minion, node, or ally/enemy champion. The tether doesn't cause damage or healing to the tethered object but buffs or debuffs the target and then damages those caught between the lines. She's a hybrid and just like any true hybrid, "anything you can do I can do better" is what every champion can say to her.

In order or those who can do it better than Karma
Q: Soraka
W: Zilean
E Janna
R: Everyone else

Her QWE have secondary effects only if her ultimate is charged which has a limited charge of two. It is her bottleneck and it's quite a tight bottle neck at that for a "hybrid."

But I still play Karma because people don't expect her burst all the time as AP unless they're experienced LoL players. ;D They underestimate her because Riot left Karma behind as designed as such. But even when they're taken back by the burst, it's nothing compared to what the other support can do as AP mainly Zilean, Soraka, and Sona.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampmajikk View Post
i think i'll do it. that way when the rework does go through i'll at least have her.
I have this crazy notion that rylais may help her lack of CC situation making her beam a stronger slow.
she does do some pretty cool stuff. I guess i'll pick her up.
Slows stack multiplicatively. You won't notice the difference that Rylais would add to her Slow.

I think her slow is like 20% @ max rank without mantra? Five second duration if they don't break the leash (since it's a really stupidly weak slow, you'll be surprised how often champions just walk out of it - unless you build Karma to be fast).

Otherwise Karma doesn't have any peels and she's pretty awful as a support.

She's honestly not a great mid either. Only two damage abilities that you are likely to hit with and no ultimate or hard cc.

Other champions do it so much better. Having said that, she's better at AP mage than Support. Since she's designed to be a support ...... yeah. She's pretty much a big bag of fail.


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Kziki

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Win Rate isn't something to really go on considering her popularity rating. There are plenty of ways that it could be skewed.

Karma herself is.. odd. She doesn't fit in with the 0 CS support meta as she's far more dependent on items than other supports are. She needs income, and a lot of it, but the results aren't enough of an improvement over other supports to really justify her use in that role. Added to this the fact that she requires her team to understand her mechanics to get them to work right and nobody does, it means playing her is frustrating - even if you manage to secure the items to bring out her real potential, you'll never get people positioned to use it well.

On the other hand, she's not quite good enough to be an AP Mid either. Heavenly Wave and Soul Shield can burst a phenomenal amount of damage, but they're all she has - Spirit Bond's damage is hard to trigger, and thus utterly unreliable. She turns into a deceptively strong AP Bruiser, if you build her properly though - and she's nigh unkillable if you're skilled with her kit, with her shield and heal growing more and more powerful the lower her health gets, but realistically she can't nuke hard enough to take the mid lane.

She could go top, and honestly I think right now that's the best place for her to be, but she's mana hungry for her harass and sustain and would run into issues quickly. Either way she's a bad fit for most teams since she's reliant so heavily on the placement of both sides of a conflict.

All this said, however - if your team does understand how to interact with her, and you do get the gold for her items, you can come out as a nasty combination of mage, support, and off-tank with the right build. She's like Galio in that regard.


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Bumboclaat

Senior Member

02-23-2013

You would be surprised at how well she can do in mid. Yes, she only has 2 damaging moves. but shes able to mitigate so much damage, that you'll hardly die against an enemy mid. Trading is something that works in her favour, as her damage trading, also causes her to heal. Just saying, that I've tried it, and it throws a lot of people off


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Whyumai

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kziki View Post
Win Rate isn't something to really go on considering her popularity rating. There are plenty of ways that it could be skewed.
Actually considering her popularity and the fact that only players who really love karma would be playing her .... her win rate is actually pretty indicative of how bad she actually is.

When only the "fans" (pun not intended) of Karma are playing her and they still can't win, it's pretty clearly she's awful.

Even when Eve was Eve tier players who were Eve fanatics still played and won with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kziki View Post
Karma herself is.. odd. She doesn't fit in with the 0 CS support meta as she's far more dependent on items than other supports are. She needs income, and a lot of it, but the results aren't enough of an improvement over other supports to really justify her use in that role. Added to this the fact that she requires her team to understand her mechanics to get them to work right and nobody does, it means playing her is frustrating - even if you manage to secure the items to bring out her real potential, you'll never get people positioned to use it well.
I actually think the reason she needs items is that she doesn't actually provide much support. She has a shield, a heal, and a haste/slow. She doesn't have any way to peel for her AD. She has no real way of making up for this. She doesn't have any ability to really lock down anyone. Her slow is really weak without Mantra and she needs mantra for her other abilities more than her slow/haste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kziki View Post
On the other hand, she's not quite good enough to be an AP Mid either. Heavenly Wave and Soul Shield can burst a phenomenal amount of damage, but they're all she has - Spirit Bond's damage is hard to trigger, and thus utterly unreliable. She turns into a deceptively strong AP Bruiser, if you build her properly though - and she's nigh unkillable if you're skilled with her kit, with her shield and heal growing more and more powerful the lower her health gets, but realistically she can't nuke hard enough to take the mid lane.
She also has no hard cc and her AoE is actually pretty small AoE (certainly her Heal doesn't have much of a radius).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kziki View Post
She could go top, and honestly I think right now that's the best place for her to be, but she's mana hungry for her harass and sustain and would run into issues quickly. Either way she's a bad fit for most teams since she's reliant so heavily on the placement of both sides of a conflict. That said, if your team does understand how to interact with her, you can come out as a nasty combination of mage, support, and off-tank with the right build. She's like Galio in that regard.
I dunno about putting Karma top. She's really vulnerable to ganks (imo). She's pretty squishy and while she can farm under her tower ..... if the opposition doesn't push the lane into Karma's tower then Karma is in trouble. Also I wouldn't think she would do as well with that farm as others. You really want your Top to carry mid game ....


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skippymcgee

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Karma's a great mid if your opponent is someone who needs a kill lane (Katarina, Leblanc, etc.). Hell, you can outpush Katarina pretty safely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
Actually considering her popularity and the fact that only players who really love karma would be playing her .... her win rate is actually pretty indicative of how bad she actually is.
I dunno about putting Karma top. She's really vulnerable to ganks (imo). She's pretty squishy and while she can farm under her tower ..... if the opposition doesn't push the lane into Karma's tower then Karma is in trouble. Also I wouldn't think she would do as well with that farm as others. You really want your Top to carry mid game ....
Winrate still isn't indicative of the strength of a champion, and Syndra should be a prime example of that. What it comes down to is complexity of the champion.

The biggest mistake you can make when laning against Karma is thinking she is actually squishy.


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skippymcgee

Senior Member

02-23-2013

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