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Riot explain yourselves

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ultimàte

Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
VanceStubbs:
Because he treated an idiot like an idiot?


Morello is the biggest idiot who's ever opened a web browser and typed in the URL for these forums. Go dick ride Riot some more, tool.


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IS1d809d67c7237f9194235

Senior Member

02-23-2013

inspired me to make a thread on fun champs


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Tosin Loads

Senior Member

02-23-2013

If the forums had a Tribunal system, Morello would be so banhammeredfufattywtf.


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Poppy Blomgrun

Senior Member

02-23-2013

bump


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Tipttt

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
VanceStubbs:
Because he treated an idiot like an idiot?


Because he called him a ****** in the most passive-aggressive way he could.

By the way, I have a problem with the way Riot fanboys like you react to arguments and valid points made everyhwere against Riot.

People were making very valid comparisons to Dota in that thread about Elise, and none of the Riot fans could muster anything smarter to say than "well, they'Re both spiders, big deal, hurr hurr."

And considering he's the LEAD CHAMPION DESIGNER, he should have had something better to reply than to call him a ******. It's an extremely unprofessional way to answer to the community when you're a high ranking employee working at a large game company as well as an extremely immature answer to give, which should be obvious to anyone above the age of 14.

When you're designing champions and people are attacking them, which should be expectd considering the number of LoL players, since not everyone will agree with how "great" Riot is, you should have more to say for yourself than simply reply with insults.


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Shunkwugga

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a Riot fanboy, and in fact have pretty much given up on this game except when I'm taking a break from Dota 2 because games tend to be quicker, but I'm going to address this image point by point because I have nothing better to do with my work day.

The Warmog's thing: Yes, this is a problem. Runes and masteries don't make up for uncreative items, but this was a balancing issue with the start of season 3. Considering that the season's barely started, item balancing is probably still being worked on and these things take time.

The Rune system is really not as impactful as you think it is. While there are proper rune setups and plenty of guides, runes tend to drop off in usefulness after the early game since they're only really meant to give an advantage there. Even scaling runes don't really add on much of a bonus once max level is hit. It helps, but not by much.

The two comments made by Morello are taken out of context and made to look like they correlate. First off, Dota was very limited in its hero design by the WC3 engine, in that they couldn't create new models. LoL can, and so Dota players have an attachment to WC3 hero units even though they're just reskins of standard units. Pudge is an Abomination. Dota 2, he still maintains that look but has been stylized a bit differently. It's also important to note that Morello is the lead champion designer, which basically means he's oversight. He helps with the design process and approves of pretty much everything, but he's not in the art department. Thus, he really doesn't care abouth originality since that's kind of not his job. As far as design and abilities, it's difficult to innovate which could have also led to his response. It's poorly worded, but I see his point. If you want to talk about originality vs competitive balance, you can talk about Guinsoo and Icefrog. Guinsoo was a champion designer once and when he was in charge of Dota he made some of the most fun heroes in the game...but because he cared an incredible amount on originality and not on "what's good," the competitive balance was so broken by the time Icefrog took over that he had his work cut out for him. He was so bad on the LoL champion design team that he got relocated pretty early on to something where he COULDN'T screw up the game. That's originality.

Giant spider is not an original concept at all. Broodmother cannot transform. Their kits are pretty different, with Elise relying on mobility and trapping and Broodmother using stealth and ambush. If anything, Elise is more of a ripoff of Lone Druid and even then the comparisons are minimal. Morello's comment is a bit harsh, though.

Now, on to that long post: Riot could have known about that streamer for some time and his terminatation was linked by people who didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. They could have been in talks about it for a while.

Chat function works from time to time, but every client has problems. Nobody complains about Steam going down at inopportune times and that happens very frequently.

Patching is a tricky issue, since the PTR is supposed to be a sample set and the results of releasing a patch for so many clients is typically unpredictable due to varying PC specs, ISPs, and a whole lot of other things. This is not unique to Riot.

Riot is not responsible for the quality of the computers or the connections at Dreamhack, they're only there to oversee the event. Dreamhack itself is at fault for that.

The Riot balance team is pretty terrible, but perfect balance is usually difficult to achieve. The thing is, top tier players will always choose certain things because they're playing at the highest possible skill level. Their choices don't affect the large amount of people because they're typically less skilled, even though everyone jumps on FOTM champs and claims they're OP. If you know how to play against them, they're not. Some are objectively more powerful, but that's only when skill is not taken into account. Someone who's terrible with Graves can (and will) lose to a very good Tristana.

Same argument can be said for items, although I will say item variety is highly limited. Dota 2 has a greater number of situational items so your hero can do a lot of things outside of its normal build, no such thing happens in LoL.

LoL's matchmaking actually is better than Dota's. While many people claim the opposite, the MM system of Dota 2 does make players gravitate towards a 50% winrate by accounting to make average skill of players even across the board. In LoL, you get better and you get put against and with better players. Dota 2, you get better and you can be put with braindead morons and expected to carry. This happens in LoL, but not to the frequency as it does in Dota. At least LoL is transparent with how its MM system works. Post is also outdated, since they changed it around for season 3.

Morello (and probably other Rioters) may not be allowed to speak on certain aspects of the company due to NDA, but they still enjoy communicating with players.

Pendragon no longer responds to Tribunal queries (and it's a good thing, Pendragon himself is a scumbag) but Lyte and WookieCookie do...and while I vehemently dislike the Tribunal, Lyte and Wookiee are much more personable than Pendragon ever was and actually do offer detailed explanations.

BBB isn't necessarily a measure of quality since there are a lot of shady things done by high-ranking companies evaluated by that, so it's best to take the grade with a grain of salt.

**** happens, Steam got hacked really bad once.

It may seem like a cop-out, but Riot doesn't know how to organize its own esports events and the world championship had teething problems. That said, the problems should have been nowhere nearly as bad as they were and they've learned from their mistake.

People agreeing with the poster doesn't validate his opinion as fact.

NEVER EVER BASELESSLY CRITICIZE AN ARTIST. I can see why IronStylus is mad, it's really difficult to work hard on something (in this case, splash art and physical design) and then be told it sucks but not offered any criticisms why. The comment in question was probably in regards to the whole "oversexualization" bull, and I find it funny that it was probably directed at IronStylus, the one visible art designer who actually prefers modesty and is responsible for Leona.

Riot has good reason to not trust you won't troll. People get ported to the ward bluff all the time and ability trolled a great deal in Dota 2. Still, they should put the abilities in-game if they can. Dota 2 actually has the option to say "refuse ally aid," meaning you can't be Tiny tossed if you don't want to.

I'm not going to defend the tribunal by any means since I don't really believe that people should be suspended for chatlog stuff, but that's the way Riot wants to run things. As it stands, the people who do rage in chat are probably also ones who are not playing properly and it's safe to assume that they were doing more to harm their team than just yelling their heads off at people. If the Tribunal autopunished (as is assumed) then it would be a 100% success rate, and as it stands it's about 87. That means that there are people that read the cases, but people who are autopunishing generally assume that the people deserve punishment just from ending up for review to begin with. A pretty bad assumption, but read some cases once in a while and you'd be surprised. People yell so much it makes me feel sick, and I'm a notorious rager to the point some of my RL friends don't play games with me anymore.


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ultimàte

Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Shunkwugga:
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a Riot fanboy, and in fact have pretty much given up on this game except when I'm taking a break from Dota 2 because games tend to be quicker, but I'm going to address this image point by point because I have nothing better to do with my work day.

The Warmog's thing: Yes, this is a problem. Runes and masteries don't make up for uncreative items, but this was a balancing issue with the start of season 3. Considering that the season's barely started, item balancing is probably still being worked on and these things take time.

The Rune system is really not as impactful as you think it is. While there are proper rune setups and plenty of guides, runes tend to drop off in usefulness after the early game since they're only really meant to give an advantage there. Even scaling runes don't really add on much of a bonus once max level is hit. It helps, but not by much.

The two comments made by Morello are taken out of context and made to look like they correlate. First off, Dota was very limited in its hero design by the WC3 engine, in that they couldn't create new models. LoL can, and so Dota players have an attachment to WC3 hero units even though they're just reskins of standard units. Pudge is an Abomination. Dota 2, he still maintains that look but has been stylized a bit differently. It's also important to note that Morello is the lead champion designer, which basically means he's oversight. He helps with the design process and approves of pretty much everything, but he's not in the art department. Thus, he really doesn't care abouth originality since that's kind of not his job. As far as design and abilities, it's difficult to innovate which could have also led to his response. It's poorly worded, but I see his point. If you want to talk about originality vs competitive balance, you can talk about Guinsoo and Icefrog. Guinsoo was a champion designer once and when he was in charge of Dota he made some of the most fun heroes in the game...but because he cared an incredible amount on originality and not on "what's good," the competitive balance was so broken by the time Icefrog took over that he had his work cut out for him. He was so bad on the LoL champion design team that he got relocated pretty early on to something where he COULDN'T screw up the game. That's originality.

Giant spider is not an original concept at all. Broodmother cannot transform. Their kits are pretty different, with Elise relying on mobility and trapping and Broodmother using stealth and ambush. If anything, Elise is more of a ripoff of Lone Druid and even then the comparisons are minimal. Morello's comment is a bit harsh, though.

Now, on to that long post: Riot could have known about that streamer for some time and his terminatation was linked by people who didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. They could have been in talks about it for a while.

Chat function works from time to time, but every client has problems. Nobody complains about Steam going down at inopportune times and that happens very frequently.

Patching is a tricky issue, since the PTR is supposed to be a sample set and the results of releasing a patch for so many clients is typically unpredictable due to varying PC specs, ISPs, and a whole lot of other things. This is not unique to Riot.

Riot is not responsible for the quality of the computers or the connections at Dreamhack, they're only there to oversee the event. Dreamhack itself is at fault for that.

The Riot balance team is pretty terrible, but perfect balance is usually difficult to achieve. The thing is, top tier players will always choose certain things because they're playing at the highest possible skill level. Their choices don't affect the large amount of people because they're typically less skilled, even though everyone jumps on FOTM champs and claims they're OP. If you know how to play against them, they're not. Some are objectively more powerful, but that's only when skill is not taken into account. Someone who's terrible with Graves can (and will) lose to a very good Tristana.

Same argument can be said for items, although I will say item variety is highly limited. Dota 2 has a greater number of situational items so your hero can do a lot of things outside of its normal build, no such thing happens in LoL.

LoL's matchmaking actually is better than Dota's. While many people claim the opposite, the MM system of Dota 2 does make players gravitate towards a 50% winrate by accounting to make average skill of players even across the board. In LoL, you get better and you get put against and with better players. Dota 2, you get better and you can be put with braindead morons and expected to carry. This happens in LoL, but not to the frequency as it does in Dota. At least LoL is transparent with how its MM system works. Post is also outdated, since they changed it around for season 3.

Morello (and probably other Rioters) may not be allowed to speak on certain aspects of the company due to NDA, but they still enjoy communicating with players.

Pendragon no longer responds to Tribunal queries (and it's a good thing, Pendragon himself is a scumbag) but Lyte and WookieCookie do...and while I vehemently dislike the Tribunal, Lyte and Wookiee are much more personable than Pendragon ever was and actually do offer detailed explanations.

BBB isn't necessarily a measure of quality since there are a lot of shady things done by high-ranking companies evaluated by that, so it's best to take the grade with a grain of salt.

**** happens, Steam got hacked really bad once.

It may seem like a cop-out, but Riot doesn't know how to organize its own esports events and the world championship had teething problems. That said, the problems should have been nowhere nearly as bad as they were and they've learned from their mistake.

People agreeing with the poster doesn't validate his opinion as fact.

NEVER EVER BASELESSLY CRITICIZE AN ARTIST. I can see why IronStylus is mad, it's really difficult to work hard on something (in this case, splash art and physical design) and then be told it sucks but not offered any criticisms why. The comment in question was probably in regards to the whole "oversexualization" bull, and I find it funny that it was probably directed at IronStylus, the one visible art designer who actually prefers modesty and is responsible for Leona.

Riot has good reason to not trust you won't troll. People get ported to the ward bluff all the time and ability trolled a great deal in Dota 2. Still, they should put the abilities in-game if they can. Dota 2 actually has the option to say "refuse ally aid," meaning you can't be Tiny tossed if you don't want to.

I'm not going to defend the tribunal by any means since I don't really believe that people should be suspended for chatlog stuff, but that's the way Riot wants to run things. As it stands, the people who do rage in chat are probably also ones who are not playing properly and it's safe to assume that they were doing more to harm their team than just yelling their heads off at people. If the Tribunal autopunished (as is assumed) then it would be a 100% success rate, and as it stands it's about 87. That means that there are people that read the cases, but people who are autopunishing generally assume that the people deserve punishment just from ending up for review to begin with. A pretty bad assumption, but read some cases once in a while and you'd be surprised. People yell so much it makes me feel sick, and I'm a notorious rager to the point some of my RL friends don't play games with me anymore.


I'm not reading all of this. -1 fanboy, uninstall.


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ATastyDessert

Senior Member

02-23-2013

This thread too good


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Shunkwugga

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
ultimàte:
I'm not reading all of this. -1 fanboy, uninstall.


-1 for not being creative. At least post the gif of the guy with the drumsticks.


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Shunkwugga

Senior Member

02-23-2013

Quote:
Tipttt:
Because he called him a ****** in the most passive-aggressive way he could.

By the way, I have a problem with the way Riot fanboys like you react to arguments and valid points made everyhwere against Riot.

People were making very valid comparisons to Dota in that thread about Elise, and none of the Riot fans could muster anything smarter to say than "well, they'Re both spiders, big deal, hurr hurr."

And considering he's the LEAD CHAMPION DESIGNER, he should have had something better to reply than to call him a ******. It's an extremely unprofessional way to answer to the community when you're a high ranking employee working at a large game company as well as an extremely immature answer to give, which should be obvious to anyone above the age of 14.

When you're designing champions and people are attacking them, which should be expectd considering the number of LoL players, since not everyone will agree with how "great" Riot is, you should have more to say for yourself than simply reply with insults.


"They're both spiders" was the argument for people saying that she was a copy, as well. Both sides were equally stupid. "Lead champion designer," as I said, is more oversight than anything. He's not part of the art team, but he approved of what the other designers were doing.

As I said before, she actually has more in common with Lone Druid than with Broodmother.