Why elo hell and trolling don't exist.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pure Celerity

Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudemydude View Post
I've seen so many hundreds of posts of people venting rage at trolls, complaining that they're stuck in elo hell, and that they are sick of this game. I used to be one of those people. I was never quite as extreme as the visible ragers... but I certainly thought trolls were everywhere.

I plan to use some simple logic to explain why trolls are exceedingly rare and elo hell doesn't exist (at least not in the advertised form).

I'm sure almost everyone except those in platinum+ can remember their last game where they did bad in lane and lost it. Personally, that was 2 games ago when I tried fiddlesticks support and went 0/7/7. When I check the average rager's lolking profile's, they have those games too, as does almost everyone else once in awhile. my theory about trolls is that the masses of "trolls" are just players who are having a bad game. Personally, I lose my lane and "feed" (go like 1/5/0) about 1 in 10 games. Being honest, I'm sure you would find a similar ratio if u look back over your lolking history. So, assuming everyone in my elo bracket (Bronze 1) has a 1/10 chance to lose their lane, then in every game, 1 person (1/10 * 10 players) will have a bad game and feed. So, in Bronze 1, I'm predicting 1 troll per game.

In higher division (or lower), the ratio is different. The pros rarely if ever lose their lane and go 1/5/0. Thus, there should be no trolls at high elo. At lower elo, people may lose their lanes 1/2 the time, resulting in 5 trolls a game on average.

I'm not saying true trolls don't exist (i.e. the ones that say they are feeding and go 0/20). However, in my 200ish games, I've seen mabye 2, so I honestly am not sure they are as prevelent as people say...

That's my theory on trolls, and based on my experience, it holds true.

About elo hell, I think it does exist, but not as commonly seen. Elo hell is not a place full of trolls and feeders where it's impossible to win any games. Elo hell is just a higher chance of "trolls (people losing lane)". Thus, in "elo hell", there may be 2+ people who badly lose their lane, whereas in "non elo hell (1400 elo +?)" people play better MORE consistently and thus there are less "trolls".


This is just my personal view of these issues. I'm sick of hearing about elo hell and rampant trolls, so if you're in bronze/silver and think trolls and elo hell exist and my system is false, show me ur lolking history with no bad games...

Edit (as seen as needing clarification by posts):



by lose their lane, i dont mean that in a strict sense of just losing it. I mean losing the lane and then proceeding to feed their lane opponent. In higher elo, when a person loses their lane (which happens a lot) they lose it but do not then feed.

Losing a lane at high elo would be going 0/3/0 with similar farm.

Losing a lane at low elo would be going 0/10/0 with half the farm.
This whole post is pointless. And in theory sounds like it makes sense, but it doesn't.

The issue is the term "troll" the definition has been greatly lost in translation over the last few years. Elo hell is a place where, no matter how far ahead one team is... they will throw the game back and forth until someone ff's or the game miraculously ends. Elo hell is where you are winning 40-20 kills with 2 inhibs down and your carries run in and die one by one until you lose.

I have watched streamers (gold and below) that are 0-7-2 and go in by themselves, die, and blame their team and elo hell.. These are the downfall of this community. But just because 90% of the community is silver or below, and honestly terrible mindless players who couldnt win a single game if it wasnt for the mistakes of their opponent.... doesn't mean elo hell doesn't exist.

That being said, In almost every game i play (even if its on the other team, which it is half the time) someone rages and either afk's or starts feeding. I win over half my games, because the odds of that person being on the other team. but these people are there.. and they are very frequent.

You should look up tier distribution, if you are Gold 5, you are in the top 9% of the community. You overestimate how BAD this community is at this game.

http://i.imgur.com/Bqln4yy.png


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

laxjoh

Senior Member

03-24-2013

No such thing as ELO hell and the simple reason is that you have evidence in every player who have climbed out of the supposed ELO hell. And to compare it to higher ELO ranks when talking about feeding and such?

EVERY GAME has a team that loses. In both winning and losing teams, some might do very well and some might have fed. Just because someone goes 0/5 does not make them trolls or intentional feeders. It just means they either made a mistake that the enemy capitalized on or that their opposing laner is significantly better in skill.

The reason why ELO hell doesn't exist is because ELO hell means no matter how skilled you are, your terrible lack of skilled teammates will prevent you from ever winning enough games to rank up. The pros and higher ranked players who CONSISTENTLY play well can climb out with ease. Note the CONSISTENTLY is capitalized because this is essentially what solo queue rank focuses on. If you play consistently well, it will increase your chances of rising in ranks. For example, let's say you go 10/0/5 every game in a generally low kill/death match. Now the chances of you winning when you are playing this well is high. I'm not saying it's definite, you can still lose many games with such kda ratio and your stats don't define how great you are. This is where, once again, consistency comes into play. If you are consistently getting 10/0/5 every game, even if you lose, you contribute that much more to winning each and every game.

Now, your KDA individually doesn't mean squat. Gradually as you play more and more games, you will accumulate a KDA average and a rank that seems to fit your skill level. THIS is when the consistency of KDA is important because it differentiates between whether or not you are the feeder or if you are leading/carrying games. Now, if you only have 3 ranked games in your history, your KDA won't mean ****.

Another thing I want to point out is that you seem to think, or you are coming off as if you think that higher ELO players ALL play well. Like I said earlier, there is a losing side in every game. 0/3/0 in higher ELo can be comparable to low ELO's 0/10/0 as higher ELO players can capitalize on mistakes better and have better general knowledge of the game... but you are assuming too much. Even pros will "feed" like crazy. And you guys have the wrong definition of what trolling is.

If you want to see a real troll in LoL, it's the Teemo that goes to Baron at lvl 1 and sits there as a vision ward for 20 minutes; not even afking. Trolling is Anivia intentionally walling their own teammates from escape/danger. Trolling is picking Trundle and using your pillar to screw over your teammates. Another pro trolling is doing your normal combo as Elise and when you press E to Rappel in when your jungler ganks, don't Rappel in and let jungler tower dive solo and die. Those are trolling. And these are all done intentionally. There's a difference between players who just suck and trolls. You can't try to accuse ****ty players of being trolls or feeders when it is not their intention to do so.

I can't tell you how many times people rage NOT EVEN IN RANKED! IN NORMALS! And it would be the stupidest thing. This premade 4 group where top, mid and bot lane all fed. I was the jungler and all of them constantly *****ed at me. I made decent plays to help them escape and get kills but I never would get credit for it. They would just keep typing in all chat, "This jungler sucks, report for intentional feeding." My score was 2/8/8 at the end while I started with 1/0/4 until mid-late game. When you come across people like that, don't say anything back. These people are just retarded; you just mute them and report them. The end. Don't concern yourself with trolls at all either. So the things you have to worry abuot in ranked are mostly ragers and unskilled teammates. The rarer part is the trolls and afkers.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Worst Iee sin

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkims007 View Post
you the know the difference between high and low elo? is cooperation. low elo players rage and flame and continue to do stupid things to throw the game. doesn't matter what you say to encourage/give advice/ or what so ever, it's they're way or high way.

if you can have decent team fight, you can win the game, which explains how voyboy feed then makes the comeback. however in low elo, ppl don't listen or follow so you are stuck due to these players. but seriously, there is too many casual players and playing rank too soon when they shouldn't be.

so what's my point? there isn't people who are purely trolling, but really bad players in rank to create this elo hell
^ this, exactly


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Worst Iee sin

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by laxjoh View Post
No such thing as ELO hell and the simple reason is that you have evidence in every player who have climbed out of the supposed ELO hell. And to compare it to higher ELO ranks when talking about feeding and such?

EVERY GAME has a team that loses. In both winning and losing teams, some might do very well and some might have fed. Just because someone goes 0/5 does not make them trolls or intentional feeders. It just means they either made a mistake that the enemy capitalized on or that their opposing laner is significantly better in skill.

The reason why ELO hell doesn't exist is because ELO hell means no matter how skilled you are, your terrible lack of skilled teammates will prevent you from ever winning enough games to rank up. The pros and higher ranked players who CONSISTENTLY play well can climb out with ease. Note the CONSISTENTLY is capitalized because this is essentially what solo queue rank focuses on. If you play consistently well, it will increase your chances of rising in ranks. For example, let's say you go 10/0/5 every game in a generally low kill/death match. Now the chances of you winning when you are playing this well is high. I'm not saying it's definite, you can still lose many games with such kda ratio and your stats don't define how great you are. This is where, once again, consistency comes into play. If you are consistently getting 10/0/5 every game, even if you lose, you contribute that much more to winning each and every game.

Now, your KDA individually doesn't mean squat. Gradually as you play more and more games, you will accumulate a KDA average and a rank that seems to fit your skill level. THIS is when the consistency of KDA is important because it differentiates between whether or not you are the feeder or if you are leading/carrying games. Now, if you only have 3 ranked games in your history, your KDA won't mean ****.

Another thing I want to point out is that you seem to think, or you are coming off as if you think that higher ELO players ALL play well. Like I said earlier, there is a losing side in every game. 0/3/0 in higher ELo can be comparable to low ELO's 0/10/0 as higher ELO players can capitalize on mistakes better and have better general knowledge of the game... but you are assuming too much. Even pros will "feed" like crazy. And you guys have the wrong definition of what trolling is.

If you want to see a real troll in LoL, it's the Teemo that goes to Baron at lvl 1 and sits there as a vision ward for 20 minutes; not even afking. Trolling is Anivia intentionally walling their own teammates from escape/danger. Trolling is picking Trundle and using your pillar to screw over your teammates. Another pro trolling is doing your normal combo as Elise and when you press E to Rappel in when your jungler ganks, don't Rappel in and let jungler tower dive solo and die. Those are trolling. And these are all done intentionally. There's a difference between players who just suck and trolls. You can't try to accuse ****ty players of being trolls or feeders when it is not their intention to do so.

I can't tell you how many times people rage NOT EVEN IN RANKED! IN NORMALS! And it would be the stupidest thing. This premade 4 group where top, mid and bot lane all fed. I was the jungler and all of them constantly *****ed at me. I made decent plays to help them escape and get kills but I never would get credit for it. They would just keep typing in all chat, "This jungler sucks, report for intentional feeding." My score was 2/8/8 at the end while I started with 1/0/4 until mid-late game. When you come across people like that, don't say anything back. These people are just retarded; you just mute them and report them. The end. Don't concern yourself with trolls at all either. So the things you have to worry abuot in ranked are mostly ragers and unskilled teammates. The rarer part is the trolls and afkers.
good point, ty for the well-thought out post