@Morello Please don't let this Darius nerf hit live. My reasoning inside.

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BloodySpearz

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Senior Member

02-19-2013

I pretty much never post on official forums, but I felt I needed to say this. This Darius nerf will be the final nail in his coffin. Please don't let it happen.

As a Darius player, I can agree he's a bit too strong, but he was in a very precarious position of strong. The wrong brick being pulled out of the jenga tower would cause him to fall over completely. This was that brick. Darius now has lost a ton of his potential. Since his ult is about 40-50% of his damage, not having it makes him absolutely useless in killing anything.

Let's say this happens: Darius' team is at a disadvantage. They need something to get them on even ground with the enemy team, and Darius catches an enemy out in the jungle. He pulls them, but his team is a bit too far away from him to help him with this fight. He wins, but it forced to use his ult. 30 seconds later the teams arrive, a teamfight breaks out. Darius is at 50% HP from the duel, and has no ult. The enemy team proceeds to roflstomp because Darius doesn't have half of his damage or health, and the slightly fed enemy team ends up winning the fight. Catching out the enemy ended up working against Darius' team because they only managed to catch out a jungler, and their top has an initiate anyways.

Secondly, I don't feel like 12 seconds is a good enough time period for Darius to reset, if this were to be the change. Say Darius' jungler decides to gank top during the laning phase. Darius' jungler is a cc-based ganker, like alistar or maokai. They don't deal out damage, but that's okay because Darius can. They end up 2v1ing the enemy and Darius uses his ult to stop himself from staying under the turret longer than he has to. They back out of the turret, both the jungler and Darius at half health, and Darius' ult is up for 12 more seconds. The enemy jungler thinks he can clean up, and goes in from the side. Darius and Darius' jungler start attacking the enemy jungler, because unless both enemies are extremely low, cleanups like this are generally very stupid. Darius' Q+W deals about 460 at this stage of the game (Level 7-8ish) if he isn't ahead or behind. Most junglers would have well over 1000 health left, and the remaining time left on Darius' ult by now would be under 5 seconds. With the minicule damage his CC ganker brings, suddenly the perfect combination of damage and CC becomes useless. Enemy jungler picks up a double kill because neither Darius nor most CC-oriented gankers have an escape. Situations like that, especially against a lane bully like Darius, *should not happen.*

I feel that the timing on this is just too cruel. The massive spike in health stacking since the S3 patch not only made his ult and passive E substantially less effective, kiting items like Icebourne Gauntlet and mobility items like Alacrity/Furor increased his weakness to range, the popularity and ease of access of high lane sustain (Pots ward start, flask, and warmogs rush) decreases his ability to bully in lane, and now this? He's not even that stupendous right now, but this is probably the final nail in the coffin. I'm pretty disappointed in this "balance" choice.

Edit: I figured out how we could better implement something like this. What if his ult had reduced effectiveness against the champion who he last killed/used it against? He could still gain an advantage against his lane opponent when he kills them through buying bulk or damage for his other abilities, but it wouldn't be the crazy snowball he currently has. He'd keep his teamfight (The reason for the 12 second re-use period, I presume.), could still use it to catch people out and continue to a teamfight, but it wouldn't be a toxic snowball in top.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-19-2013

this is just the first of many steps to mess with darius. As long as his W and passive havent changed you can more or less disregard any changes made to him as they wont be particularily important especially considering his W is actually is strongest skill anyways.


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BloodySpearz

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Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
this is just the first of many steps to mess with darius. As long as his W and passive havent changed you can more or less disregard any changes made to him as they wont be particularily important especially considering his W is actually is strongest skill anyways.
I disagree. His W has the highest damage output on a single target after five stacks if you can't land the outer ring of your Q and you're building lots of damage. Very strong, but only conditionally.


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agbudar

Senior Member

02-19-2013

In all honesty his ult should not reset i admit i have had fun with this getting very close to a penta but in all honesty make his kit more balanced like more move speed if he puts his passive on a champ( so it could work as an semi escape) or less mana usage on his skills or a double/triple cast on decimate idk just throwing it out there


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BloodySpearz

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02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by agbudar View Post
In all honesty his ult should not reset i admit i have had fun with this getting very close to a penta but in all honesty make his kit more balanced like more move speed if he puts his passive on a champ( so it could work as an semi escape) or less mana usage on his skills or a double/triple cast on decimate idk just throwing it out there
Balanced? He's underpowered in every aspect but for his ult. He already gets MS for putting his passive on champs, a 5% bonus per champ hit. 5%? How ridiculously good is that?. His mana usage it also low outside of his ult. His W is sort of a double cast because the CD goes down to 2 seconds if you hit it on a target with 5 stacks.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodySpearz View Post
I disagree. His W has the highest damage output on a single target after five stacks if you can't land the outer ring of your Q and you're building lots of damage. Very strong, but only conditionally.
It also has one of the most potentially spammable AS slows, which there are very few of, in the game. Its one of the few that haven't been touched since season 2 ended and attack speed took a huge hit. The damage and slow is just icing on top.


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Rockoutwithmy

Senior Member

02-19-2013

He is in the working of having his gameplay redesigned, take no nerfs to heart.


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BloodySpearz

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02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
It also has one of the most potentially spammable AS slows, which there are very few of, in the game. Its one of the few that haven't been touched since season 2 ended and attack speed took a huge hit. The damage and slow is just icing on top.
AS slows are useless against mids and junglers, any top that's been trading wtih you long enough for you to have 5 stacks and your W be up again should be worrying about things other than attack speed, and any carries that are in range of the enemy's bruisers are probably dead anyways.


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Oz SammyD X

Senior Member

02-19-2013

I don't understand why Darius would get nerfed anyway, so easy to beat its laughable, any nerfs he gets will simply make him worst hamp in the game simple as that, I would say he is worse than Karma if he gets nerfed, he isn't overpowered at all.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodySpearz View Post
AS slows are useless against mids and junglers, any top that's been trading wtih you long enough for you to have 5 stacks and your W be up again should be worrying about things other than attack speed, and any carries that are in range of the enemy's bruisers are probably dead anyways.
Darius isnt a midlaner and its not junglers that have been known to snowball out of control and force games in some direction via brute force. Furthermore, many of the most gamechanging champs in the game are heavily reliant on AS. (such as every single carry in the game)

Also 2 stacks and 40% cooldowns is enough to get it down to 3.6 seconds. 3 stacks will take it down to 3 seconds. In anycase, the target won't be dealing much damage for the next 2 seconds nor will the be too mobile without casting and they will have to worry about the whole guillotine thing too but the important part is the lack of damage being dealt as a result, this is the gamechanging mechanic that is far more relevant than his ult will ever be. His ult is no worse than a couple of crit strikes, nothing amazing about it except that it can be cast over a slightly longer range than a melee attack.