Sick of Fiora ruining my GG's

12
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Mysterage

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Senior Member

02-19-2013

I really, inherently hate to call any champion OP, because IMO I actually like most champions to feel rather strong. IE, I don't want to play a nobody, I want to play a Legend! But that being said, and after some testing during free week I have to state I do believe Fiora is quite OP.

Her laning phase is amazingly easy, as all you have to do is focus on last hitting, and not worry about poke, as her passive will heal you anytime you do any sort of damage. You can chase better than most any champion in the game, and once you build your first PD it's literally game over for anyone you beat in a fight. Which, guess what, because you are the most OP 1v1 champ in the game, is all the freaking time! Moving on to her ult, it's IMO far, far worse than Tryndamere's old non-nerfed one, as it truly, literally makes you not only invulnerable, but totally untargetable! I literally abused this in a game I played last week, having an easy time the entire game, and only having "trouble" when it was 1v5. In any team fight I was assured to get a kill, and in only my 2nd game ever as her I easily got a triple kill, without even trying really. (Just press R...) Now, I can only begin to tell you how frustrating it is to lane against another super strong, OP champ that has passive life regen abilities like Volibear (my last game.) Even as Talon, whom deals some very hefty damage, and my lane partner, Tristana, we were barely poking them down, and they several times (almost non-stop) would tower dive us, not even caring if they died, because each knew they'd get fed if only they got a few kills. I actually ended up getting quite fed myself, though this lone Fiora, whom I pinged 2 of my team mates to take out as she ran through our jungle, ate each of them alive, staying at 80% HP the entire time. Later in the game, after counter building an Executioner's Calling, I tried stopping her from taking our last inhib tower, which she tanked me + minions, and after Igniting her she proceeded to ult on me, killing me, and then literally 2 seconds later from killing minions, going from 10% HP to max again. I do realize there is a distinct difference between fed and OP, though in this case she was both. I know the counter argument to her already, so most of you can save your words - I know..."Just CC her, lolz." Sooo, what do you do if you don't pack Exhaust, or have CC on your team? You just have to suffer through what was at one point an extremely fun game, to being totally unable to handle an out of control, monster champion.

Checking LoLKing she currently has a win rate between 52 & 48%, so I don't believe that a very small nerf to her sustain & ult would hurt her too bad. Though if you think I am pulling stuff out of my ass, take a quick look at her LoL Wiki page...

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fiora

Now, am I the only one whom has a problem with her single target ratios on her ult?!? It had been so long since she was last free, I had forgotten just how much I despise playing a champion that is THAT OP. I could kill anyone, ANYONE, on the enemy team, anytime I wanted to. I just needed to have all my CD's up, walk up, ult their face off, and if there was anything left, easily mop up the remains. (A Twitch in particular, I basically one-shot with my ult.) 240% bonus AD?!? That seems extraordinarily high to me, I dunno. Would it be such a huge thing to lower it down to a somewhat more reasonable, "mere" 200%?? Also, if her sustain was hit slightly, I feel that would bring her down from God Mode, and into more of the realm of Demigods, like Soraka. These are just my own opinions, and no, not just from a single game I lost. This has been a very, very long time coming, almost over a year now.


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TopDariusPlz

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterage View Post
I really, inherently hate to call any champion OP, because IMO I actually like most champions to feel rather strong. IE, I don't want to play a nobody, I want to play a Legend! But that being said, and after some testing during free week I have to state I do believe Fiora is quite OP.

Her laning phase is amazingly easy, as all you have to do is focus on last hitting, and not worry about poke, as her passive will heal you anytime you do any sort of damage. You can chase better than most any champion in the game, and once you build your first PD it's literally game over for anyone you beat in a fight. Which, guess what, because you are the most OP 1v1 champ in the game, is all the freaking time! Moving on to her ult, it's IMO far, far worse than Tryndamere's old non-nerfed one, as it truly, literally makes you not only invulnerable, but totally untargetable! I literally abused this in a game I played last week, having an easy time the entire game, and only having "trouble" when it was 1v5. In any team fight I was assured to get a kill, and in only my 2nd game ever as her I easily got a triple kill, without even trying really. (Just press R...) Now, I can only begin to tell you how frustrating it is to lane against another super strong, OP champ that has passive life regen abilities like Volibear (my last game.) Even as Talon, whom deals some very hefty damage, and my lane partner, Tristana, we were barely poking them down, and they several times (almost non-stop) would tower dive us, not even caring if they died, because each knew they'd get fed if only they got a few kills. I actually ended up getting quite fed myself, though this lone Fiora, whom I pinged 2 of my team mates to take out as she ran through our jungle, ate each of them alive, staying at 80% HP the entire time. Later in the game, after counter building an Executioner's Calling, I tried stopping her from taking our last inhib tower, which she tanked me + minions, and after Igniting her she proceeded to ult on me, killing me, and then literally 2 seconds later from killing minions, going from 10% HP to max again. I do realize there is a distinct difference between fed and OP, though in this case she was both. I know the counter argument to her already, so most of you can save your words - I know..."Just CC her, lolz." Sooo, what do you do if you don't pack Exhaust, or have CC on your team? You just have to suffer through what was at one point an extremely fun game, to being totally unable to handle an out of control, monster champion.

Checking LoLKing she currently has a win rate between 52 & 48%, so I don't believe that a very small nerf to her sustain & ult would hurt her too bad. Though if you think I am pulling stuff out of my ass, take a quick look at her LoL Wiki page...

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fiora

Now, am I the only one whom has a problem with her single target ratios on her ult?!? It had been so long since she was last free, I had forgotten just how much I despise playing a champion that is THAT OP. I could kill anyone, ANYONE, on the enemy team, anytime I wanted to. I just needed to have all my CD's up, walk up, ult their face off, and if there was anything left, easily mop up the remains. (A Twitch in particular, I basically one-shot with my ult.) 240% bonus AD?!? That seems extraordinarily high to me, I dunno. Would it be such a huge thing to lower it down to a somewhat more reasonable, "mere" 200%?? Also, if her sustain was hit slightly, I feel that would bring her down from God Mode, and into more of the realm of Demigods, like Soraka. These are just my own opinions, and no, not just from a single game I lost. This has been a very, very long time coming, almost over a year now.
I came here seeking a good thread, is this the best these fools can offer me?


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67chrome

Senior Member

02-19-2013

lol.

You should explain how Tryndamere and Master Yi are overpowered next, dem Melee ADCs.

And Fiora's passive is pretty horrible - so is her lanning phase. She only gets regeneration if she moves into melee range and attacks things - and it only stacks when she attacks champions. She's limited to melee range and has nothing to help her wave-clear or farm, which is a significant handycap when she's a carry and needs farm to pull anything off. I mean, when you know what you're doing with her you can beat other lane match-ups, but so many champions counter her in top-lane she's almost unplayable. Every single unique effect on armor items hits essentially her entire damage output as well - the damage steroid from Riposte, her attack speed bonus on Burst of Speed, and the on-hit nature of her ultimate is all effected by the % damage reduction on Ninja Tabi, damage block on Doran's Shield, Cold Steel of Warden's Mail and Randuin's Omen, and reflected damage from Thornmail. Building Thornmail more or less makes it impossible for her to kill you in-lane as well, unless she gets significant assistance from a jungler. Blind also causes each strike on her ultimate to miss. Fiora also has 0 crowd-control, she doesn't even have mini-displacement, silence, or slows. Her chasing potential is only good if you don't apply any crowd-control back on her as well (It's not even that hard to kite her with Ezreal) that Lunge range is pretty short and movement speed can only allow you to chase so much. Vayne is better at chasing and she's ranged, Yi is better when his ultimate is available, and Tryndamere actually has crowd-control with his slow and he can jump over walls.

As for picking off fleeing enemies in a jungle one-by-one, well duh. Any fed AD Carry can do that. Most auto-attack Bruisers can do that. If a champion is a "duelist" they're going to win in isolated 1v1 situations against champions that aren't duelists.

But Fiora isn't overpowered - if anything shes on the weak side, if nothing else due to having to put up with relatively hard counters in plentiful amounts. She can deal a lot of damage, but dealing damage is the only thing she can do.


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Lostlemur

Member

02-19-2013

She really isn't that good. She has no CC and no escapes. Her laning phase is pretty strong and it is annoying, but trust me she isnt that useful to her team. Just start cloth armor and 5 pots, play safe till you get more health/armor and you can destroy her. Yes her damage is high, but thats all she has. Shes actually a melee ADC, but no one plays as an ADC cause she would get poked down by any other bot lane. Calling her a "monster champ" is kinda a stretch.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-19-2013

nerf her sustain? she has no sustain lol. Just some lane freezing heals.

btw, you know she's a carry right? Carries tend to kill pretty much anyone.


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Godly6R

Senior Member

02-19-2013

If you don't understand why Fiora is an objectively weak champion, who's easily curbstomped by a minimally competent team and why she's completely passed over in competitive play, you just don't have much of a grasp of this game's Dynamics and/or the metagame; Simple as that! (And by the way, she has been tested by a number of pro players, who quickly dropped her).Like all melee caries, she is inherently not viable because of Crowd Control. Unlike ranged carries, you have to sit in the face of the opposing champs do do your damage. However you are very squishy and will get killed after chain CC. You ultimately die and become useless. Her ult allows her to do some damage in a teamfight without getting blown.It's essential to her kit. Sure, you can't 1v1 her unless you are Jax,Sion, Nasus, Tryndamere, Yi or Olaf but this is the nature of the champ.


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Mysterage

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Senior Member

02-19-2013

Alright so answering people in order...
GatDMG: Sorry I know better than to feed a troll. Go play Trundle some more, ass-clown.
67chrome: Nah, honestly I don't feel that there are many other champs in game that are OP right now. A few in certain match-ups, some that just seem to do well in every game they are in, regardless of who plays them. (I see Darius do well in most games, though I would never really call him OP.) Oh, so her regen sucks? Damn she only gets regen when she pokes, or attacks...yeah that sounds really hard, since she can poke, and poke, and poke, and easily walk away, keeping her HP up. Also don't even think about trying to poke back, or god forbid, try and trade hits with her, because you will guaran-damn-teed lose. Alright so can you get off the top lane/she's not good w/ the meta train? Not every single game is played in that particular match-up. In a 2v2 lane match, alongside any sort of tank, she can easily be protected enough to farm quite quickly, and snowball immensely after. Yes I realize Thornmail should have shut her down, but honestly, seeing that both my Ignite + EC wasn't good enough to stop her, I have to ask & wonder...just how many items do you need to counter one champion, before you stubborn bastards agree she's on the side of OP? Or do I need to do like I did with pre-nerf Akali, go and buy her and begin rampaging in games to show how truly over powered she is? I don't know what nonsense you are talking about, her chasing is quite godly. A double lunge can completely negate a Flash, and for any champion that has no further escape mechanic she's done for. OK, did you honestly read my post at all?!? She was not picking off fleeing enemies in my jungle, I called for TWO of my team to go and gank her, as I was chasing her through jungle, she stopped long enough to drop them both, and kept running. Keep in mind she was at full health, and so were both team mates, it wasn't an "Oh they were prolly low HP, duh noobs" type of situation. As for the Duelist thing, honestly I would be more fine with it if Riot just flat out came and was honest and said "Ok look, Fiora is the best 1v1 champion in the entire game. We are going to keep her that way, deal with it." But honestly until then, the fact that she has so many things going for her in her kit that make her so specialized at wrecking people, I'm not comfortable with her power level. Dealing massive, monstrous amounts of damage is a bad thing? I wish she were still free, or that I owned her, I'd go wreck with her in every game type I possibly could, including ranked, until this beacon of OP was shone brightly upon the minds of the ignorant.
Lostlemur: Thanks for being one of the 2 people that was actually decent, and didn't insult me, my intelligence, or skill at this game in your post. Yes, she's technically a hyper-carry, like GP, though I don't know, I don't see how people are not realizing how good she is. I feel like she is maybe in the position that Miss Fortune was in previously, when a handful of people (myself included) and Phreak said, "No, TRUST ME, she's good." Ok I can agree she might not be a monster to start off with, although I can say the only champion I have ever seen get so scary at being that fed was Fiddlesticks.
CBOD: Hiya there, again, fellow CF poster. Have you tested this? I've seen her just today able to ignore all poke, as I stated, from a Tristana, and Talon combo, and she really was never at any real risk of dying. So much she was confident enough all game to do crazy, suicidal things, like tower dive 2 nearly full health champs. Also...yes, I know she's a carry. I feel as though I need to put a note in front of any post I make, stating "Been playing since beta/constantly reads up on every champion/item in game/watches several YouTube vids a day of matches & clips." I know what I'm talking about. Though about her "killing most everyone" that is my point. It wasn't a sort of situation as say, an Ez who got a super amazing triple/quadra/penta-kill, to where I can say, "WOW that guy landed so many skill shots/his placement was the best/he must be a really good player!" But more like, I personally could, and did, go and play Fiora extremely sloppily (on purpose) to see how hard and fast I could take it to the enemy team, and w/out much effort at all was dropping people at my leisure. Honestly I feel like such a finesse based champ should require a certain amount of skill, forethought & talent to pull off to such amazing feats.
Godly6R: Thanks so much for choosing to use your opening sentence to insult me, I appreciate it. (Did you take the time to downvote me, too? Good job.) Alright so, since "pros" don't use Fiora, she must be weak, right? I was more than competent, my team maybe not so much, but still don't insult the general populace as well by stating such an abstract notion. Melee carries not viable? Have you ever heard of this thing...it's called a "Summoner Spell." There is one of these magical things, you can use it, and it is called Cleanse! It makes CC go away! There is also another thing, called an "Quicksilver Sash" that can make it go away even better! She's squishy? No, she's quick on her feet, and like anyone who plays any squishy character at all, they know to not engage people until they have an advantage. She's squishy until she has her ult, which btw, not many of you have commented upon. I suspect a couple of you may secretly be Fiora fanboys, who don't want Riot to touch your favorite pubstomp faceroll champ. When I think of a squishy, more balanced champion I think of Teemo. He has all of one escape mechanism, and even super fed, gets absolutely blown up/wrecked by a whole range of certain champions, Fiora included. If there are more counters to her than never, ever engaging her unless it is a 2v1 (or better, 3v1, but still expect someone to die.)

Thanks for the comments, at least. Special thanks to those of you whom were at least respectful about them. I welcome anymore actually constructive feedback here, or better yet, from someone whom owns Fiora and is at least objective, or any other fellow Summoners who have seen & share my beliefs.


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Baughwssery

Senior Member

02-19-2013

lolking is super inaccurate. I hate how people use this as "proof" of their findings and research. It's so annoying.


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Amarus

Junior Member

02-20-2013

And the answer is : Jax !


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterage View Post
CBOD: Hiya there, again, fellow CF poster. Have you tested this? I've seen her just today able to ignore all poke, as I stated, from a Tristana, and Talon combo, and she really was never at any real risk of dying. So much she was confident enough all game to do crazy, suicidal things, like tower dive 2 nearly full health champs. Also...yes, I know she's a carry. I feel as though I need to put a note in front of any post I make, stating "Been playing since beta/constantly reads up on every champion/item in game/watches several YouTube vids a day of matches & clips." I know what I'm talking about. Though about her "killing most everyone" that is my point. It wasn't a sort of situation as say, an Ez who got a super amazing triple/quadra/penta-kill, to where I can say, "WOW that guy landed so many skill shots/his placement was the best/he must be a really good player!" But more like, I personally could, and did, go and play Fiora extremely sloppily (on purpose) to see how hard and fast I could take it to the enemy team, and w/out much effort at all was dropping people at my leisure. Honestly I feel like such a finesse based champ should require a certain amount of skill, forethought & talent to pull off to such amazing feats.
It does, the enemy team just sucked. Today I was up against a team with a shen, unless I could kill the tank and survive I was screwed. I had to find a way to beat things like that.

The weapon in question can be simple enough, but in the end its the scenario that decides what's complicated or not. It takes skill to fire a gun, it takes no skill to point and pull a trigger. Like a gun fiora is both simple and complicated at the same time. If she is simple then so is the counterstrategy.

Talon and trist? What about them? Fiora is a carry, not a caster. As much as you might want to think that adcs need to be ranged champs that go squish the second talon appears then fiora would like a word with you. His only chance is his ult which is a fairly good chance as long as nobody is there to help her lifesteal like say another carry. Her sustain isn't what keeps her alive in fights its the sustain in her items. At best her sustain gives her like 100 hp at level 18 and she does have EVASION if that's what you mean.


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