When GD complains about "bruisers" being too strong

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Cartod

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconPawwwwnch View Post
Fiora?
No, people that play her like that are stupid.

Why would you build attack speed on somebody that has the strongest attack speed steroid in the game (that will reset when you get a kill in a teamfight). Going Lifesteal/AD for lane and then picking up Iedge or Wit's end, maybe a hydra if you feel like it, once late game hits will net you much better results. In lane, much of fiora's damage comes from her Qs (Unless you are stupid and level her W first, which means you will have a harder time disengaging from trades because you are using the speed steroid to sit there and autoattack instead of disengaging with 4 stacks of your passive up, making you win the trades)


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Aran888888

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartod View Post
No, people that play her like that are stupid.

Why would you build attack speed on somebody that has the strongest attack speed steroid in the game (that will reset when you get a kill in a teamfight). Going Lifesteal/AD for lane and then picking up Iedge or Wit's end, maybe a hydra if you feel like it, once late game hits will net you much better results. In lane, much of fiora's damage comes from her Qs (Unless you are stupid and level her W first, which means you will have a harder time disengaging from trades because you are using the speed steroid to sit there and autoattack instead of disengaging with 4 stacks of your passive up, making you win the trades)
You max w to block attacks and get free damage..


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Bloodmo0n

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Garen, Xin, Vi, Darius, Renekton, Elise. Generally if they get fed, they build into unkillable tanks really quickly while still doing significant damage. This can quickly secure mid game teamfights, where the adc can't shred them yet and APC has no hope of bursting them down, and your bruiser is busy in the frontline. Ryze is possibly a counter to this.


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Cartod

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aran888888 View Post
You max w to block attacks and get free damage..
Except you're laning against an AD caster. Or anybody that doesn't rely on autoattacks for damage.

Oops.

It's already been pretty much established that leveling W first is inferior to Q, so it really doesn't matter if you disagree.


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Aran888888

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartod View Post
Except you're laning against an AD caster. Or anybody that doesn't rely on autoattacks for damage.

Oops.

It's already been pretty much established that leveling W first is inferior to Q, so it really doesn't matter if you disagree.
Anyone with an onhit ability-panth, garen, gp, they can all be blocked with your w. besides, q has a **** cooldown.


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Cartod

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aran888888 View Post
Anyone with an onhit ability-panth, garen, gp, they can all be blocked with your w. besides, q has a **** cooldown.
"
Because Riposte is a conditional on the enemy auto-attacking you, its not reliable as a damage source. If your enemy doesn't use auto-attacks to harass you then leveling Riposte is only good for the passive AD. Since so many popular top-laners are AD casters or AP casters, they may not even give you a opportunity to counter an auto-attack. Nor does it help your chasing ability unlike lunge and burst of speed which are synergistic as a gapcloser and a MS boost. Riposte is only good in auto-attack duels.

While Riposte doesn't help much in lane, it is extremely useful as a late game assassin. Fiora's main goal is to kill the enemy ranged AD carry. They usually lack the cc of mages and deal most of their damage through auto-attacks. This is perfect for Riposte as each block could have been a 500+ damage critical. Additionally, its very easy to Riposte a ranged auto-attack as you can see it flying at you. Ironically, Fiora duels best against ranged champions thanks to Riposte."
-thresholden

Also, Q's cooldown decreases with ranks in it, so you kind of just shot yourself in the foot there.

EDIT: Also, the fact that you included GP as somebody that you even need to counter in the first place is kind of retarded, because a cannon minion could probably beat up gangplank in his current state


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Scyfex

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Jax is sleeper OP, Nasus is sleeper OP, Yorick is sleeper OP.

Agreed with the rest.


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EyeHearShapes

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scyfex View Post
Jax is sleeper OP, Nasus is sleeper OP, Yorick is sleeper OP.

Agreed with the rest.
Jax weak early needs items .
Nasus weak early need farm.
Yorick his minions didnt scale into season three they still have season 2 movement speed


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FalconPawwwwnch

Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scyfex View Post
Jax is sleeper OP, Nasus is sleeper OP, Yorick is sleeper OP.

Agreed with the rest.
Jax was nerfed so hard after the cost of phage went up. He'll be alot better after the new Blade of the ruined king. Nasus just got buffs so idk his potential yet, as for yorick, he just needs some help.


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconPawwwwnch View Post
Which ones are you referring to exactly? All of them? Because that is a complete lie.

You're telling me that Jax, Irelia, Nasus, Gangplank, Riven, Warwick, Udyr, Yorick, are overpowered right now? It's not "bruisers" that are too powerful. Only the ones that can scale really well with health stacking and have insane base damages are strong right now. The others are rarely, if ever used in competitive play. Stop using the term "bruisers" as if all of them are problematic right now. Because half of them aren't even used.
Every class of champions has a range of power from strong to weak. The weaker end of that spectrum won't be used competitively no matter how good one class is relative to another.

That doesn't mean that the bruiser class is fine right now. If you look at the range of power level among bruisers, then compare that to the range of power level in other classes, you'll see that bruisers as a group are looking pretty overtuned. Bruisers have benefited a lot from improved Penetration and Health itemization, basically.

Now, in terms of how to fix that, I would be looking more at itemization than I would be looking at champions. Mages need better answers to high health / low magic resist targets. Tanks need Armor itemization to be better. ADCs need to represent more of a threat to bruisers than they currently do.


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