Junglers are still starved for gold! :/ (long)

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IS1ebe60507d910496d5f37

Senior Member

02-18-2013

I may only play in Gold, but telling my laners to **** off unless they want **** ganks and a **** tank usually works for me.


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The SoulEmperor

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Unless I get like 4-5 kills early. I normally only above the support in gold. What pissed me off is the laners start taking over the jungle when their lanes get fcked up which hurt me even more. A lot of gold wasted on those useless losers. And they still feed in team fight.

In the end, instead of just having 1 or 2 useless losers, my team have 1 or 2 useless losers + 1 "even more under farm than normal " jungler.


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Nbur

Senior Member

02-18-2013

im going to have to disagree sr.

what champs are you playing?

Try some that have either a heal or some kind of base Lifesteal. Yes, you are on the right page with "tankiness" of a jungler, however the correct term would be sustainabilty.

I Kayle in the jungle, my second skill is the heal. I think you need to go back to the bored and rethink your jungle picks or play style. I have no problem on Ali, Panth, Noc, or Nasus. All these champs have either a heal, life steal, or some form of shielding. Sustainability. If you cant pick a champ that can gank at 2 or 3 you arent playing the jungle right. I dont care what any one comes here and tells you about not being able or optimal to gank until 6.

Also, flash. Flash is stupid... Ghost > Flash for escapes AND chacing people down. There are very few times flash is actually going to get you that kill or get you to safety where ghost couldnt have done it just as easily. The times where flash does saveyour ass by jumping that wall.. look at the situation, should you have been there in the first place? Usually means you got flanked from multipul angles and honestly no one should ever 1v2 or 1v3, i dont care if your jungle or not.

I can usually get 2 kills/assists on my first clear, my first clear consists of a full clear than a single spawn of each of the lesser jungle mobs (Wolves, Wraiths, Golems) check the map for my location and possible gank on mid and which ever top/bottom lane im in the middle of.

In the end. If you can only clear once thru the jungle with no ganks and no ability to farm more gold in the jungle due to low health. Back to the drawing board sr.

Kayle:
Machette 5pots
spirit stone, boots, 2 wards, and a dagger
Spirit stone, Berserker's boots, daggerx2
Spirit stone, Berserker's boots, Malady
Spirit stone, Berserker's boots, Malady, Needlessly large rod.

this should be about 15 minutes in... i dont see a problem with gold here honestly.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Eleven
It's been pretty proven to death if you ignore the lanes and farm/jungle you out level your lanes and do just fine in gold. It's also well known that if you waste time sitting in a bush you will fall behind pretty hard.

So basically it sounds like the real problem is you need to learn to time your ganks better and coordinate with your team _before_ you get there so you don't lose the gold. it's a tough change from S2 people don''t seem to get because you can no longer invade whenever you feel like it.. you've got to create opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TètsuyaI
can't speak for a high elo player so let me pose a question. Isn't there different types of jungling champions? Lee sin and maokai who have great gank potential should be utilized in their ganking power and if you fail, you get behind and you don't get as much money. This seems to me to be just an obvious fact, but maybe there is more to it than that. Then there are the people like zed and vi who can power farm and carry, they have the choice to their risk early ganks, or simply farm the jungle and get big. Of course, in a game this dynamic, there is no set situation to plan for when going into solo queue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you're trying to pigeon hole every jungling champion into a playstyle you feel the jungler "should" play, and this certain play style is not making you enough money.

If you take time to camp lanes and give your team advantages and be the team support, you willingly sacrifice your own carry potential to have your team carry you. This is the trade off for giving tons of map pressure. Of course if you get fed of all these ganks, it's all well and good and there is no problem. If you don't get fed and you don't help your team and end up wasting your time and making less money then the support, this should be a fault of, excuse my fowardness, your own playstyle. Riot should not have to make this game more forgiving.

Again I can't speak for a high elo player so feel free to disregard all I have said, but this is what I have to say from the context of your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FighterRanger
Ive grown so used to stealing cs from my lanes when they die or b that Ive forgotten about how low-income the jungle is from just clearing. I honestly dont feel its a bad thing, though.

However, that is just another way that solely single-target junglers are still worse than aoe junglers. Now that like 25% of the junglers farm is from stealing lane cs, single-target junglers are still gonna clear waves slower and be behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicesummoners1
I think the gold the junglers get is enough.

Like riot explained when there was a huge jungle patch, if you are a ganking jungler you give up the farm. if you are a farming jungler you give up the ganking gold.

if you get less cs for playing ap jungle, your teammates will get more cs. if you play ad jungle that farms alot, your team will generally have less cs.

I think it's pretty balanced now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VicariousxD
I almost said I main jungle and don't have much of an issue with gold, but then I remembered some of THOSE games.

A great portion of my gold as the Jungler comes from ganking and securing assists and kills. However, some of the time (a lot* of the time) I get teams that just constantly push every single lane all the way never giving ganking opportunities. A lot of the time they get ganked and die then ask me for help and I tell them to stop pushing the lane to gank and they actually do it, but when they dont (6 or 7 times out of 10), I get no ganking oppurtunities.

Games like that, where I can not gank, I usually see myself falling behind rather quickly in gold and levels. I just constantly farm my jungle and counter jungle so I can influence the game somewhat still (and hold lanes when they have to recall gives me a little gold/exp too usually). However, there is always a level and gold deficit to the Jungler in games like this.

I am not certain that is an issue with the jungle so much as team competence though. You decide
Quote:
Most of the time I end up with the most gold on the team as jungle : /

Farm the sht out of your jungle, go damage early for quicker clears, only gank when you know it's a kill or at least will burn their flash.
Quote:
Some times the way to win team fights is to ignore the failing lane early on.


Quote:
I'm just a silver jungler , but from watching saint's jungleology and just about every stream he does I have learned a couple things. The biggest one is that you do in fact get good gold from the jungle. You can finish basic items very fast if you just jungle... The way saint jungles works for me pretty well, I get yelled at more often because I don't gank as much as other players would but come mid game I'm usually 1-2 levels higher then enemy jungler.

I just think that the way you jungle is changing and mostly turning into farming mostly and only ganking when it is safe and efficient to. Clear the whole jungle then look for opportunities. It's working for me, saint's streams are very informative and helps more then people might say.
Quote:
I really don't ever feel starved unless I get somehow behind (ie a bad gank where I f up and die or a counterjungle i cant win/escape from)..

I dunno... I feel fine. I dont feel rich, but I feel in a good place.

If your lanes are pushed get a GB for a first item and tower dive. Seriously. GB+cloth armor=win.
how many people are you going to ignore, that are all telling you that its your playstyle?


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Feror

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Bump, I agree.
This may just be me, but I find jungling very tedious now.


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peanutbuttercrak

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Just did some maths. Jungle gets 452 gold from clearing full jungle and getting wraiths and wolves a second time. That's 4 waves of minions or 460 available gold per lane. 4 waves take 2.5 minutes to clear. So, if the jungle leaves for a gank, he is massively behind if he doesn't get the kill. Because you have to add another wave making it closer to 565 gold for that lane by the time you clear.

quick math. might not be 100%


Now I play as a jungle Fidd a lot lately and try and gank a lot. Average stat line is 6-4-11 and 53 CS per game


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Kr1sys

Senior Member

02-18-2013

I honestly have a bigger issue with xp gains in the jungle. Unless you have a perfect clear and get a successful gank or two, you end up at least a level or two behind, and that's with being level 2 before anyone else gets any xp from their own lane.

With being levels down, you miss out on base damage which is your main clearing power early in the jungle, and keeps you from being able to hold a lane if you have to or trade with an enemy laner.

The gold gains are also a little silly, and the late game increases only help in encouraging laners to take jungle camps, siphoning even more gold from the jungle.


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The Sgt Pepper

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbur View Post
im going to have to disagree sr.

You don't seem to understand the roll a Jungler plays in the current meta. I don't feel like your comment is very relevant.

I know how to jungle, and i know if it's done properly I am still behind support on gold if the game drags on.


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Nbur

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sgt Pepper View Post
You don't seem to understand the roll a Jungler plays in the current meta. I don't feel like your comment is very relevant.

I know how to jungle, and i know if it's done properly I am still behind support on gold if the game drags on.
you seem to be QQing when its being done just fine and you brought nothing relevent to the discussion.

thanks for your well thought out responce and your downvote

keep it classy.


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Shuix

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbur View Post
-snip-

The main junglers I play at the moment are Xin Zhao and Hecarim, Both have AoE clear and sustainability, After getting madreds/spirit stone I then get boots, a giants belt then rush a sunfire.

I will have to try Kayle Jungle though seems interesting...

And Generally I will take flash on Xin and ghost on Hec. I like running flash on hec as he has a gap closer E and a knock up Q to make chasing easier, but when champions flash over a wall and they are 1-2 hits most of the time you can follow them over with your own flash. With ghost you will have to run all the way around and by that time they are gone. I run ghost on hec for obvious reasons aswell


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Tètsuya

Senior Member

02-18-2013

There seems to be a misconception on the overall role of jungling. As an advid jungle player I find that I make plenty of gold in the jungle. If you think its only the jungler job to help and babysit lane, that's all well and good but if you don't get kills or significantly snowballing a lane, its generally not worth it at all. You are better off farming your jungle, that gives plenty of money, then trying to help a lane aimlessly. This doesn't mean you shouldn't give pressure, this means you need to do it efficiently so you don't waste valuable time as a jungler.


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