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@Volty @IronStylus My humble Quinn tweak thoughts, if you would please visit & reply

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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Pathogen:
Well, you have +3, which means like +300 because this is the PBE server.

I agree generally speaking, with everything apart from your ult change. Her ult needs to be completely revamped imo.


Revamped like how? Any idea(s)? Or what would you say is the issue with it? I've heard a lot of people are unimpressed with Skystrike & reporting that the damage component of it is fickle or unreliable.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
DLChade:
Please dont cut OP down. He is asking for thoughts and ideas, not a chainsaw.

I think that they might have build quin that way on purpose, to fulfil a place that tristana filled a while back-and still sort of does.
I dont think quin/val abilities are any better than hers for tower killing.

I think perhaps instead of increasing the range on the dash/escape (i forgot the name of it) maybe increase the speed of it, so it feels more intuitive. As it stand, if the target have any reaction time, they simply walk backwards and you get trapped with a long chase, similar to vi when she uses her ult, and the enemy flash/other escape (not that it matters really with vi, but just comparing)


TrollsBTrollin' haha. Fair enough, I think you make valid points, however I would encourage you to try her tower killing 11~ with R active. Increasing the speed of it is a good idea, I will alter the op- the range factor has more to do with escape mechanic & more reliability when attempting to leap a jungle wall but it's technically unnecessary whereas improving it's speed would fix some real glaring issues I perceive with it.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Imparalite:
I might agree with some of your posts...but please dont ask for the range increase on Quinn, that takes a lot of skill away from her necessity to position as well as breaks her into the OP range.


Well, I don't think 25 is asking too much (perhaps counteract it by NOT increasing base damage at all), and I understand the positional factor is important to consider- thoughts on what you might change instead, if anything? Maybe if her plain aa range were to be increased, not increasing her vault CAST range? Possibilities...


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starkey xxx

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Stop spamming your own thread, damn. You already posted this in Volty's pinned thread and Vsin made a much better post immediately above it that I think deserves more attention.


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TenshiNoMaou

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Hey guys I wanted to also get my quinn thoughts out...soo here goes!

Before I talk about skills I feel I should say that quinns range should be abit higher her range is similar to graves who has superior burst and tankiness*for free* and maybe more utility? compared to our demacian ranger.Also I feel when she comes out of valor form she should have her quinn skills available.

Quinns passive 50 percemt bonus ad dmg on marked targets.

She has vaynes maxed tumble on a somewhat higher cd I don't mind this but I feel the marking isn't what you want I think it should proitize champions or whoever you attacked last so its not like rng
Added on to this her q that shoots out the bird should mark a target alongside her E.


Q her blind can be blocked by minions or champs and has a shortish duration I feel it should have a bit higher duration or scaling dmg as a player can easily disengage so you can't capitalize on mthis*brief* advantage maybe a higher aoe for splash dmg can fix this aswell.

W this steroid should be abit higher like at the 70-80 percent range for the ranged form I feel that quin has no real steriod for a ranged carry*her ult is for a tanky melee quinn* and this can be decent alongside her passive.



E maybe let you be able to angle this or untargetable until impact?


R I think you should be able to change at any time similar to jayce or elise increased stats on valor can make her better top and maybe change her valor attack speed to scaling per lvl?


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
starkey xxx:
Stop spamming your own thread, damn. You already posted this in Volty's pinned thread and Vsin made a much better post immediately above it that I think deserves more attention.


1) I'm not spamming my own thread, I'm replying to people's thoughts/responses & furthering the discussion.
2) I did post this in the pinned thread so it would be noticed, this' a forum to discuss the idea(s) & expand them in finer detail among the population.
3) It's your opinion that Vsin's post is better (as well, that it deserves more attention).
4) Get out of this thread if you have nothing constructive to post, please.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
KamijouTouma00:


I feel when she comes out of valor form she should have her quinn skills available.

Her Q that shoots out the bird should mark a target alongside her E.

Q her blind can be blocked by minions or champs and has a shortish duration I feel it should have a bit higher duration or scaling dmg as a player can easily disengage...

E maybe let you be able to angle this or untargetable until impact?

R I think you should be able to change at any time similar to jayce or elise increased stats on valor can make her better top and maybe change her valor attack speed to scaling per lvl?


I agree with just about each of these points.

I think Q-marking is an excellent idea as it promotes less RNG, passive marking could still occur for creep killing, but besides that Q+E marks are a good idea imo.

I have an idea for Q redesign, maybe make it targeted & slow it down a little, but it homes on target-choice up to a max distance & ghosts (or flies, really) over minions (but not champions, so that a support could block the hit let's say). So basically, Valor will home in on target of choice & dive-bomb them (so now it's usable over creep wall & establishes more of a threatening presence for Quinn in lane- but a good support will take the hit OR a good ADC will have to back up & reengage once it's popped... so it's like a flying Maokai sapling).

I think clicking+dragging out an angle to vault back to is an AMAZING idea- perhaps you can only vault on like a 90 deg. angle from the launch-point so it gives you some strategic advantage (a la tumble but not fully-directional)... not only so, I think adding a minor untargettable window is a good idea (maybe just right before & after impact, like a .05 second time-frame).

I was thinking similarly to your R redesign, being able to form-swap on like a mid-length cooldown... I'll make an entirely different post given this idea fleshed out~ I think you're on to something with this.


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TenshiNoMaou

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Eyrgos:
I agree with just about each of these points.

I think Q-marking is an excellent idea as it promotes less RNG, passive marking could still occur for creep killing, but besides that Q+E marks are a good idea imo.

I have an idea for Q redesign, maybe make it targeted & slow it down a little, but it homes on target-choice up to a max distance & ghosts (or flies, really) over minions (but not champions, so that a support could block the hit let's say). So basically, Valor will home in on target of choice & dive-bomb them (so now it's usable over creep wall & establishes more of a threatening presence for Quinn in lane- but a good support will take the hit OR a good ADC will have to back up & reengage once it's popped... so it's like a flying Maokai sapling).

I think clicking+dragging out an angle to vault back to is an AMAZING idea- perhaps you can only vault on like a 90 deg. angle from the launch-point so it gives you some strategic advantage (a la tumble but not fully-directional)... not only so, I think adding a minor untargettable window is a good idea (maybe just right before & after impact, like a .05 second time-frame).

I was thinking similarly to your R redesign, being able to form-swap on like a mid-len
gth cooldown... I'll make an entirely different post given this idea fleshed out~ I think you're on to something with this.


Hmm the sapling Idea is interesting*reminds of angry birds ppl will like this* and it wouldn't be that op as other champs can still block it and champs can disengage easily if blinded.
The E change is exactly what I was thinking and would be fun to change it up and not be predetermined where you land.
R change is exactly what she she have imo this is 2013 why make it like this?
Added on to these I was wondering how you felt about quinns attack range?I feel that it should be higher considering the only other adc with her range graves is far superior *imo.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
KamijouTouma00:
Hmm the sapling Idea is interesting*reminds of angry birds ppl will like this* and it wouldn't be that op as other champs can still block it and champs can disengage easily if blinded.
The E change is exactly what I was thinking and would be fun to change it up and not be predetermined where you land.
R change is exactly what she she have imo this is 2013 why make it like this?
Added on to these I was wondering how you felt about quinns attack range?I feel that it should be higher considering the only other adc with her range graves is far superior *imo.


Her attack range is a fascinating topic to me, I like the idea that she should "peck" away at the opponent with some sort of risk--opportunity factor (which seems to be what they were going for with her short range & Vault+Blind)...

but at the same time, I believe that currently the risks far outweighs the opportunities...

You want to blind Caitlyn or MF from afar before moving up to AA once or twice, but the window (due to blind duration) is very small and on top of that- Q is a skill shot that can be easily avoided!

In addition, Q into E doesn't work on many of the ADC's as Cait will trap your origin point or fire net & now it's a wash or you're screwed worse as she's further out of your range & better into her range... MF will just E your origin point & Q you... Graves will W your origin point, E toward you, & Q you (or ANY combination!)... Ezreal will just Q+W+E+R you... Vayne will R+Q+E+Q murder you... and so on and so forth.

so keeping her range shortish would be fine if her Q+E were more reliable, but not only so- she is super squish & NEEDS that blind & she NEEDS kite & peel to be viable in such a short-ranged form.

And don't even get me started on E into enemy flash or blink abuse (watch as you E and ezreal blinks backward throwing you in between him & his support or worse- under his tower; he could even blink back + flash to put you behind his tower with ease, and then you're auto-focused by the tower for tapping him on top of it all).

So if Q & E were redesigned as we've discussed, I think her short-range is fine & gives her character & flavor that's unique from the others; perhaps buffing her armor coefficient or ad scaling on basic attack, skills, or both may be necessary too (or as replacement)... but I do feel like she needs major tweaks to be viable in lane.

If Q & E were not to be changed, I'd propose an increase in range by 25 & base AD+Scaling by a marginal quantity, perhaps even base MS by another 5.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

02-18-2013

This prior discussion between Kamijou & I (^above^), I would love some feedback on from y'all!