Don't worry, we'll win late game

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Ssraeshza Tvyl

Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpir View Post
In every ranked game that I've played with you that we've been even remotely losing you've tried to force the surrender. Oddly enough, you've never said "don't worry guys, the enemy team might forget to ward baron and 5 man farm bot lane". Capitalizing on an enemies "mistake" doesn't put you in the lead unless the enemies team "mistake" was so ridiculously substantial that they have no hope of recovering.
I'd like to point out that I do that in every MOBA, lol.

If I could, I would do that in Dota but amazingly, Valve was too fail to put in a forfeit feature.

Quote:
There are no "comeback" mechanics in LOL aside from baron steals (which require certain niche champions to pull off) and stalling the game for 45 minutes until everyone on your team has 6 items.
I tend to agree, there are very few intrinsic "comeback" mechanics.
But that's an ancillary argument at best.

The core argument is, Dota 2 is way WAY more snowbally than LoL... which it is.
Citing prior thread;
- The trickle gold in LoL is roughly twice as high as Dota
- Last hitting gives 18-24 gold per unit in LoL, whereas it gives 40+ in Dota.
- Death does not apply gold loss in LoL, it does in Dota.
- etc.

There are many more features that widen the gap, but let's focus on those three.
A losing team in Dota is way, WAY further behind in terms of gold an experience than a losing team in LoL.
THIS ISN'T EVEN AN ARGUMENT, LOL.
It's too obvious.


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Deathnor

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpir View Post
People who say this don't understand how LOL works.

Yes. if you are within 5 kills of the enemy and haven't given up every dragon, you're still a late game contender.

If you're down 15 kills and have no dragons, you've lost the game. Sorry, if you want comprehensive comeback mechanics go play dota. It's not like your team is going to magically close that 10k gold gap and start dominating.
u sir must not have seen froggen play at a pro lvl and win with a deficit of 25k gold.

ive won games were we had near a 15 difference in kills way under in towers and in drgaon/barons.


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womennsandwich

Senior Member

02-19-2013

this is true, but this isnt true for normal, because people are dumb in normal


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stillnotCampir

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssraeshza Tvyl View Post


- The trickle gold in LoL is roughly twice as high as Dota
What the fuck is trickle gold?


Quote:
- Last hitting gives 18-24 gold per unit in LoL, whereas it gives 40+ in Dota.
How is this a snowball mechanic if everyone gets the same gold per cs?

Quote:
- Death does not apply gold loss in LoL, it does in Dota.
This is a comeback mechanic. Enemy weaver has 3500 gold and will soon buy relic, gank her 3 times successfully and you've eliminated the threat and CLOSED the gold gap SUBSTANTIALLY. Enemy ashe has 1400 gold and will soon buy sword, gank her 3 times and nothing happens. She's just as strong, and you're team hasn't closed the gold gap anywhere near as substantially as you would have in dota.


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UrsaMinor

Senior Member

02-19-2013

"Trickle gold" is the gold you get for doing nothing. Passive gold generation.


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stillnotCampir

Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrsaMinor View Post
"Trickle gold" is the gold you get for doing nothing. Passive gold generation.
Right, so it in no way contributes to our discussion.


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UrsaMinor

Senior Member

02-19-2013

I guess I'll comment while I'm looking at this thread.. (keep in mind this mostly has to do with solo queue, where most teams aren't working in perfect sync)

It's very possible for a come-back because "throws" happen at all levels of play. If the losing team adapts their gameplay to the winning team, they have a chance of coming back if the other team makes a crucial mistake. (Like getting a good gank on their AD while having your own alive and well, then pushing and taking towers for example) Gold deficiency will lower and you'll be back in the game. That's only if your team is serious about coming back though. Idiots/trolls who don't change their playstyle will lose no matter what (unless they're getting carried).


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Aliath6

Senior Member

02-19-2013

lol trickle gold. Ambient gold is nice. Or passive.


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Ssraeshza Tvyl

Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpir View Post
What the fuck is trickle gold?

How is this a snowball mechanic if everyone gets the same gold per cs?
Not sure if troll...?

As UrsaMinor said, trickle gold is passive gold generation.

LoL has base of 16 trickle gold per 10 seconds + whatever masteries/runes/items add, this go up to 40+ even.
Dota and HoN have an established 10 trickle gold per 10 seconds.

This means that someone with 0 cs in LoL at end game vs someone with 200 cs at end game will not be at such a large gold difference than someone with 0 vs 200 cs in HoN/Dota.

To compound this issue;
Support dies a lot, in every MOBA.
In LoL there is no gold loss, so for example, a late game Soraka will not be so far away from everyone else, as opposed to someone who babysat an Anti Mage and got minimal CS + died several times.



I'm AMAZED that I have to explain this to you... you are not a bad player, don't act like one.

Quote:
This is a comeback mechanic. Enemy weaver has 3500 gold and will soon buy relic, gank her 3 times successfully and you've eliminated the threat and CLOSED the gold gap SUBSTANTIALLY. Enemy ashe has 1400 gold and will soon buy sword, gank her 3 times and nothing happens. She's just as strong, and you're team hasn't closed the gold gap anywhere near as substantially as you would have in dota.
Weaver is massively overrated, but I guess that's not really relevant....

You talk as if "gank her 3 times successfully" is going to happen against a team that already has a lead.

I am not an expert in Dota 2, but I played thousands of matches of DotA all stars and HoN, and have been watching a ton of replays.
It is my belief that a team that is ahead will have a greater level of map control in Dota than in LoL, making it extremely hard to just "gank her 3 times successfully" to recover.

What you are describing is a massive "throw" as you would call it.

There isn't much else to say... I know you really like Dota 2, but you have to acknowledge it's failings or you are just a dumbass fanboy.
My favorite of the three is very easily HoN, but I acknowledge that it is a deeply flawed game with a @#*&$%ing retard at the head of the company(Marc Maliken Deforest).

Don't be a fanboy.
Recognize that your favorite game is not perfect and in this case, that Dota 2 is more snowbally.
gg /thread


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silentpartner

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Senior Member

02-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpir View Post
What the fuck is trickle gold?



How is this a snowball mechanic if everyone gets the same gold per cs?



This is a comeback mechanic. Enemy weaver has 3500 gold and will soon buy relic, gank her 3 times successfully and you've eliminated the threat and CLOSED the gold gap SUBSTANTIALLY. Enemy ashe has 1400 gold and will soon buy sword, gank her 3 times and nothing happens. She's just as strong, and you're team hasn't closed the gold gap anywhere near as substantially as you would have in dota.
Im not sure if you even understand what your talking about. Your only moulding the information in one direction and it's incredibly ignorant.

More ambient gold = losing team has proportionally more gold/items (higher % of total gold earned in game)

Higher CS gold: You start winning lane, what happens? You push your opponent away by harassing and try to force him out of last hits/exp - while you get substantially more last hits, with higher CS gold you extend your lead on your opponent at a much faster rate (snowballing)

Lose gold when you die: Your infront, you keep getting kills on the opponent, they essentially are locked down at <500gold and can never purchase any useful items causing you to progress further and further in front if you play properly exponentially snowballing the game.

Since you have already dismissed that mistakes should not be taken into account a hero with 3x the amount of gold of another should never dieto them, hence never letting the snowball roll backwards so to speak.

Now take a moment to read this and get dunked and finally admit that perhaps DotA does actually have more snowball mechanics than LOL

GG

EDIT: ST got in just b4 me, lame, but my points still dominate you too.