@Riot, can we actually talk about Janna?

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Apollinarius

Senior Member

02-28-2013

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Originally Posted by Splinterheart View Post
Ooooh, as a Janna main this makes me happy Wonder what nerf they're reversing...
Here's hoping it's the ult nerf. I miss being able to actually save my carry with it.


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RockJockey

Senior Member

02-28-2013

Woot!


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Snowsprite

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Senior Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to be giving Janna a little love, likely undoing one of the nerfs. Statikk will have details when it's done
Great news! Janna buff coming in 2014!


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Doctor Swole

Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to be giving Janna a little love, likely undoing one of the nerfs. Statikk will have details when it's done
Morello, can you make Janna feel like less of a c*ckblock? i get it she can cblock. but she's just frustrating knowing once she hits 6 all kills bot lane will no longer happen


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xKHORNExLORD420

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Senior Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Swole View Post
Morello, can you make Janna feel like less of a c*ckblock? i get it she can cblock. but she's just frustrating knowing once she hits 6 all kills bot lane will no longer happen
HI. I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Zilean, you may have met?


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RexSaur

Senior Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to be giving Janna a little love, likely undoing one of the nerfs. Statikk will have details when it's done
Really hoping its the shield nerf.


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Lord Graves III

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Senior Member

02-28-2013

Hey OP:

Ive personally put a ton of thought into this myself. Now admittedly I am not as avid a Janna player as yourself, but she is my favorite support thematically. I played her as my primary support in season 2, but just could not hang after the buffs. I still squee when i get her in aram due to her strength there.


I wanted your feedback on some ideas I had had for her.

I feel her flavor needs some help, and her baseline kit is altogether likely too strong. Her dialogue doesn't come off as very defensive, and her tone and lore never really sounded defensive or meek, so I feel that in being buffed, her spells could be altered to be more agressive in general.

Q needs its balls back. Your suggestion for that is the best I have heard.

Eye of the Storm could use a fix in my opinion. Your fix is a strong idea, but an idea occurs to me. AD carries are the primary target for the spell. Shields scale with AP and resistances, but Eye of the Storm has a focus on AD. What if it scaled with the target's AD? I found this flavor wise to be really neat. I feel that as a start the ability to shield towers could be removed.

Monsoon also needs more POWAH
It doesn't feel like a monsoon. It feels like light drizzle. I aprove of increasing the range on knockback again, but I feel that monsoon should do more to enemies and perhaps less to allies.
It feels to me like LoLs version of Crystal Maiden's Frozen Field. In my wildest dreams, Janna's ult slows enemies who re-enter, speeds up allies inside it, and damages enemies on cast and standing inside the storm.
That is likely all excessive, but any 1 or 2 of those effects could greatly increase the whole "summon a mighty tempest" feel of monsoon. I wouldn't even be mad if they removed the heal on Janna Monsoon. It always felt lame to summon a monsoon for healing instead of battle, but I would often find the best use of ult was to just medpack my team.

Janna is League of Legends' wind mage. I feel she just doesn't have enough wind in that mage.

EDIT: Also, if something in her kit had to be cut, I would advise making her passive a ranged aura instead of global. Cutting that free invisible power would free up space to buff the fun parts of the kit. As is its a NUTS powerful passive. It just doesn't feel like it, and isn't any fun.


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luscious Lenny View Post
wow janna is fine wtf she is still op
This is why she's in every LCS game, right?


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Aeolian Melodies

Senior Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to be giving Janna a little love, likely undoing one of the nerfs. Statikk will have details when it's done
Gosh. Thank you for looking at her again and telling us about it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobasco da Gama View Post
I don't know why everyone is hating on Janna lately, she's still an incredibly strong support.
If she was people would be playing her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollinarius View Post
I used to main Janna. Playing her was what got me into ranked in the first place. Her Tempest skin is what got me to buy RP for the first time (it went on sale a week after I bought it).

I feel you, Tempest was my first RP bought as well.

A good year later... I still think Janna is good. Is she the best support? No. Is she a good niche pick? Yes. Do I play her much anymore? No, because my playstyle has become more aggressive. I could never play Soraka because of how passive she is, and Janna used to be my go-to support. As I became more aggressive, Janna no longer fit in my comfort zone.

The thing is Janna USED to be able to be more aggressive. You'd spend the first couple of levels being fairly defensive but once you had a couple of points invested into E, you and your carry could turn on the aggressive switch - which you can no longer do because the smallest poke from the enemy says "lol no steroid for you".

I've always felt that the Eye of the Storm change was a bug fix. I was shocked to learn that breaking the shield did not remove the damage. For the record, breaking the shield also removes Black Shield's effect. Morgana is another support I pick now over Janna. You need to look again at the shield behavior across champions.

Your comparison with Morgana's Black Shield is pretty ridiculous. Morgana's Black Shield has two purpose: blocking incoming magical damage and blocking incoming CC. Both of those purpose are defensive. If Morgana shields you and the shield gets broken you are no longer protected but she's done what she wanted to do. Janna's shield has a dual purpose, it is both a defensive spell and her steroid to her ADC, but as soon as the enemy takes a poke at her carry, the barrier breaks and takes away the 2nd purpose (AD buff). Ontop of that Morgana will usually end the game with a lot of AP, making her shield much thicker than Janna's.

It removes the effect on Shen (personal), Janna, Morgana, Sion. It does not remove the effect on champions that have another agent associated with the shield - Orianna's ball armor, Shen's ultimate teleport, Lulu's Pix damage.

Shen's W, Sion's shield are personal/selfish things. It is up TO THEM to use them at the right time. With Janna it is up to your ADC to position perfectly (and even then...) and it is up to the enemy to not be stupid enough to not toss one skill towards the carry. If Shen wouldn't teleport because the shield from Stand United got broken, would Shen players be pissed? Surely. Janna's shield is much more comparable to Lulu's, it's a defensive barrier with an offensive purpose - well, news flash, Pix does not return to Lulu once the shield is broken.

Perhaps Janna is weak if you take into account what her shield does for damage mitigation and addition. The nerf to doubletap Q was harsh. The nerf to W slow duration was massive because that was her only real peel skill.

My biggest problem with Riot's changes to Janna is that they nerfed her ultimate and then reduced its mana cost to compensate, without touching the cooldown. To me, that would have been the same as reducing Karthus ult scaling to .2 from .6 and cut base damage by 20% because well, it's strong. Then they lower the mana cost a little and expect Karthus players to think that it's the same as before. Ultimates are supposed to be game-changing, especially such long cooldown ones. Janna's got the short end of the stick because it was really good in the hands of a capable player.

So are a lot of things, and a lot of easier are safer to use and just as rewarding if not more and they still don't have that massive CD/mana cost.

It had the Olaf problem where a pro player would dominate with it, but solo queue was mostly unable to take advantage.

Olaf now has a 40% winrate on lolking. Janna has over 53%, putting it above every support other than Taric who is insanely OP and will be nerfed to oblivion next patch. Keep that in mind when you complain about Janna's power. She has a higher winrate than Sona.

Because (I'm going to be very straight foward about it) Sona and Taric have easier kits that appeal more to noobs and noobs are bound to get their asses kicked. Janna does not appeal to noobs or people who are unfamiliar with her or the support role. Nobody is last pick, forced to support, and says "welp I'm just going to pick Janna and see how it goes". They're going to pick Sona, Taric or Soraka.

Here are the only champions that have a higher winrate than Janna:
Taric
Tryndamere
Rumble
Singed
Amumu
Miss Fortune
Twisted Fate
Kayle
Hecarim
Xin Zhao
Garen

Janna is strong, in part because the S3 changes made her passive stronger than before.

It is actually weaker because it works in % and speed % have diminishing return, and everybody got faster. Also everybody and their mothers have dashes and blinks now, making a passive MS buff less valuable than before.

She now gives everyone on her team the 21 point talent in utility mastery. If there was a champion who gave the 21 point talent of the defense of offense tree as a global passive, would you complain about his low power?

She does not give 21 points. Saying that implies that she also gives mana regen, CDR, XP, and so forth. She gives 3 points that are at the end of the tree. 3% MS. That's 2 MS quints. It used to be much more valuable but what is that 3% MS buff good for when Kha'Zix jumps you or your carry from 900 range? The final mastery for offensive tree and defensive tree are much more impressive, by the way. I'm not saying Tailwind is bad. It's a fine passive. Just not nearly as good as you make it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Swole View Post
Morello, can you make Janna feel like less of a c*ckblock? i get it she can cblock. but she's just frustrating knowing once she hits 6 all kills bot lane will no longer happen
That feel when all you have to do is read the OP to realize that Janna can't even cockblock efficiently anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Graves III View Post
Hey OP:

Ive personally put a ton of thought into this myself. Now admittedly I am not as avid a Janna player as yourself, but she is my favorite support thematically. I played her as my primary support in season 2, but just could not hang after the buffs. I still squee when i get her in aram due to her strength there.


I wanted your feedback on some ideas I had had for her.

I feel her flavor needs some help, and her baseline kit is altogether likely too strong. Her dialogue doesn't come off as very defensive, and her tone and lore never really sounded defensive or meek, so I feel that in being buffed, her spells could be altered to be more agressive in general.

Well she used to be able to be more aggressive... but her voice is calm and soothing. Her quotes vary between softness ("With ease", "As you wish", "For tranquility") and a somewhat more threatening tone ("The tempest is at your command!" "Gale winds unleashed!" "The tempest is upon them!"). Her lore and her quotes suggest that she, like the wind, can be gentle and calm one minute and destructive the next minute. Her kit used to reflect that fairly well but being anything else than defensive as Janna is pretty suicidal now.

Q needs its balls back. Your suggestion for that is the best I have heard.

Eye of the Storm could use a fix in my opinion. Your fix is a strong idea, but an idea occurs to me. AD carries are the primary target for the spell. Shields scale with AP and resistances, but Eye of the Storm has a focus on AD. What if it scaled with the target's AD? I found this flavor wise to be really neat. I feel that as a start the ability to shield towers could be removed.

The ability to shield towers (and buff them - Janna takes credit for a shielded tower's hits) is a cool unique touch and it makes it easier to defend her turret on her own. I always felt like it was her compensation for not being a healing support, she might find herself alone in lane more often than Soraka or Sona and as such needs to protect her turret better. As for the shield scaling with the AD, that sounds like a pain in the ass to balance, it would make the shield HUGE on ADC/AD casters/somewhat bruisers but completely useless to defend an AP champion.

Monsoon also needs more POWAH
It doesn't feel like a monsoon. It feels like light drizzle. I aprove of increasing the range on knockback again, but I feel that monsoon should do more to enemies and perhaps less to allies.
It feels to me like LoLs version of Crystal Maiden's Frozen Field. In my wildest dreams, Janna's ult slows enemies who re-enter, speeds up allies inside it, and damages enemies on cast and standing inside the storm.
That is likely all excessive, but any 1 or 2 of those effects could greatly increase the whole "summon a mighty tempest" feel of monsoon. I wouldn't even be mad if they removed the heal on Janna Monsoon. It always felt lame to summon a monsoon for healing instead of battle, but I would often find the best use of ult was to just medpack my team.

The HoT on Monsoon is actually great thematically with Janna's lore. The wind lashes out at enemies and soothes allies. I do agree though that Monsoon feels more like a breeze than an actual Monsoon in its current state.

Janna is League of Legends' wind mage. I feel she just doesn't have enough wind in that mage.


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Unban Auspexa

Member

02-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to be giving Janna a little love, likely undoing one of the nerfs. Statikk will have details when it's done
LOL why buff janna are you serious?

fire yourself