Jungle Cho'Gath build/masteries?

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UtinMan

Member

02-16-2013

i cant seem to find a good setup for him


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UtinMan

Member

02-16-2013

bump


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missou

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Armor seals, Scaling MR/Level Glyphs, AS Marks, Movespeed or AP Quints.

Masteries are pretty flexible, though usually 9/21/0 or 0/21/9 is run.

E>Q>W, then max R>E>W>Q for quicker clears.

Start Machete + 5 potions. Cho's build itself is impossible to pin down - it's very game dependent. Under the current meta you'll probably be wanting to stack some HP from the get-go with items like Giant's Belt and Aegis.

Randuin's and Frozen Heart are the go-to armor options. Sunfire is a good buy only very rarely, if you expect bruiser/tank duels to be happening constantly. Locket of the Iron Solari is also decent if skirmishes are happening early and often. Spirit of the Ancient Golem is a good upgrade from Machete's.

Abyssal Scepter and Runic Bulwark are the most common MR options. Spirit Visage can be built situationally - it's a strong item but usually not what Cho needs. Wit's End is a great option for some MR and quicker clears, but beware that building this item may sometimes leave you less tanky than you need to be to really fill that tank role come midgame.

The new Warmog's is great on Cho'Gath for rushing health and passive HP regen, but if you're able to keep his stacks up and already have a strong HP item like Randuin's or Bulwark, Warmog's is often a wasted buy. It depends on the enemy comp and the game...
To put it in a nutshell, as a tank, one of the WORST things you can do is over-spec into your defenses. If you're already tanky enough that you're the last one dead on your team every time, but you keep building more tank items, then you are completely wasting your gold. You want to contribute more to your team - not go for the flawless score. If you're sitting on 4k HP and 200+ resists, and are just chugging along through the fights unharmed, you're doing it wrong. If you have 1k HP from a Warmog's and you aren't dropping under 1k HP before your teammates die, then your money was better spent on a damage or utility item. On the other hand, if you ARE dying quickly then by all means get that Warmog's, because the tank does have to be tanky.

In a nutshell, Cho's build path is usually to get as tanky as necessary with the above items, and then to look into some offensive or utility options.

AP Offensive: Abyssal Scepter, Rabadon's, RoA
AS Offensive: Wit's End, Nashor's Tooth, Zephyr, Statikk Shiv(decent waveclear)
Utility: Shurelia's, Rylai's, Sightstone, Phage, Locket

Boots: Mob boots early if you're gank-heavy. Zerker Greaves if you're planning to run Zephyr or Spirit of the Ancient Golem. Tabis+Spirit of the Ancient Golem against heavy AD. Merc Treads against double AP.

Example final build: Abyssal Scepter, Runic Bulwark, Randuin's, Frozen Heart, Zerker Greaves, Zephyr.

Note that, though this build may look strange in comparison to how Cho used to be built, you have to taken into account how the meta has shifted. Full tank Cho is simply no longer very viable - you have to be able to outduel those Mog-rushing tanky DPS'ers running at your carries. Unless you went full AP and manage to catch a carry with rupture and instagib, Cho's role is primarily a peel-based tank, NOT a diver-tank like Malphite.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Personally, I like to do this..

Boots + 3 pots (Cho can clear pretty well without the Machete.)
Catalyst the Protector (for sustain + some health and mana)
Frozen Heart
Abyssal Scepter
GA
Wits End

Build Catalyst into ROA if you're doing well and are ahead, or build it into Banshees if you need the MR. Wits End is a bit of a luxury item for end game as far as I'm concerned, as I usually don't level E until last.

R>W>Q>E

The runes/masteries listed above I agree with 100%.

Movespeed Quints, ASpd Reds, Armor Yellows, MR/Lvl Blues

0/21/9

While I understand the current "Meta" is to stack Health Items, Cho'gath gets a lot of Free Health as long as he can keep 6 stacks on his R.. Assuming you can do that, it's making your build more efficient and going for defenses will solidify your tankiness without having to spend the cash on a lot of health. However, Catalyst is a nice early bit of health to make you tanky vs all types of damage until you can figure out which route you need to go (Mr or Armor first.)

Frozen Heart is just amazing for the aura, mana, and CDR it provides. Abyssal, again, with the Aura and the AP it's perfect for Cho. GA simply to keep stacks on your ultimate. If you're not feeling GA, Bulwark is nice also as it provides another aura for your team.

As mentioned above, Cho is great for his ability to peel off your carries and deal out a lot of burst damage on a squishy target.


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missou

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
Personally, I like to do this..

Boots + 3 pots (Cho can clear pretty well without the Machete.)
Catalyst the Protector (for sustain + some health and mana)
Frozen Heart
Abyssal Scepter
GA
Wits End

Build Catalyst into ROA if you're doing well and are ahead, or build it into Banshees if you need the MR. Wits End is a bit of a luxury item for end game as far as I'm concerned, as I usually don't level E until last.

R>W>Q>E

The runes/masteries listed above I agree with 100%.

Movespeed Quints, ASpd Reds, Armor Yellows, MR/Lvl Blues

0/21/9

While I understand the current "Meta" is to stack Health Items, Cho'gath gets a lot of Free Health as long as he can keep 6 stacks on his R.. Assuming you can do that, it's making your build more efficient and going for defenses will solidify your tankiness without having to spend the cash on a lot of health. However, Catalyst is a nice early bit of health to make you tanky vs all types of damage until you can figure out which route you need to go (Mr or Armor first.)

Frozen Heart is just amazing for the aura, mana, and CDR it provides. Abyssal, again, with the Aura and the AP it's perfect for Cho. GA simply to keep stacks on your ultimate. If you're not feeling GA, Bulwark is nice also as it provides another aura for your team.

As mentioned above, Cho is great for his ability to peel off your carries and deal out a lot of burst damage on a squishy target.
Pardon the bluntness, but playing Cho as a tank with the expectation that you will keep 6 stacks is retarded. For AP Cho maybe, but to assume you're going to stay alive indefinitely as a tank is to be a failed tank from the moment you enter the game. Yes, keeping stacks up is important and should hold some priority, but the role of a peel-based tank like Cho'Gath lies in protecting his carries, not himself. That being said, Catalyst>RoA is a viable itemization in the jungle. I don't know about the GA. I find it useless as all hell on Tank Cho. Res with 600 HP and do what, autoattack?

E should definitely be prioritized for waveclear over Q and W. At least 2 or 3 points in it, if not 5, before maxing Q and W. The most successful junglers in solo queue are the ones that know how to sit and farm like crazy. This may not be true in organized competitive play, but fast and steady clearing is the most consistent skill a solo queue jungler can have.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by missou View Post
Pardon the bluntness, but playing Cho as a tank with the expectation that you will keep 6 stacks is retarded. For AP Cho maybe, but to assume you're going to stay alive indefinitely as a tank is to be a failed tank from the moment you enter the game. Yes, keeping stacks up is important and should hold some priority, but the role of a peel-based tank like Cho'Gath lies in protecting his carries, not himself. That being said, Catalyst>RoA is a viable itemization in the jungle. I don't know about the GA. I find it useless as all hell on Tank Cho. Res with 600 HP and do what, autoattack?

E should definitely be prioritized for waveclear over Q and W. At least 2 or 3 points in it, if not 5, before maxing Q and W. The most successful junglers in solo queue are the ones that know how to sit and farm like crazy. This may not be true in organized competitive play, but fast and steady clearing is the most consistent skill a solo queue jungler can have.

Honestly most games don't go beyond Boots, ROA, Frozen Heart, and Abyssal.. Are you saying those are BAD items to prioritize? Usually I will get Wits End before GA. I agree that GA's passive is a little iffy, but it has preserved my stacks on more than one occasion.

Imho the only way you're going to peel for a carry is if you're beefy enough to body block and continue to lay down the CC while they escape.. If you build a lot of damage you may be more of a threat but you'll also melt under focus. Frozen heart provides a ton of mana, and CDR which equates to more CC in a shorter period of time. You are right in your previous post about there being a "balance" though.


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missou

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
Honestly most games don't go beyond Boots, ROA, Frozen Heart, and Abyssal.. Are you saying those are BAD items to prioritize? Usually I will get Wits End before GA. I agree that GA's passive is a little iffy, but it has preserved my stacks on more than one occasion.

Imho the only way you're going to peel for a carry is if you're beefy enough to body block and continue to lay down the CC while they escape.. If you build a lot of damage you may be more of a threat but you'll also melt under focus. Frozen heart provides a ton of mana, and CDR which equates to more CC in a shorter period of time. You are right in your previous post about there being a "balance" though.
Building damage isn't necessarily about being a threat. It's about recognizing when you've reached that point of tankiness where building more resist isn't going to help your team - just you. For example, for exaggeration's sake, pretend you have 50k HP, 20k armor, and 20k MR, but have 15 AD. Are you going to keep building resists because you're a tank? No, you're going to build damage. It's not necessarily about being a threat - it's that overspeccing into resists means you're wasting your gold. Ultimately tanking is not about not dying, it's about providing a meat shield that prioritizes the team's needs first.