Trinity Force on Ezreal instead of IBG

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LoudFootSteps

Senior Member

02-16-2013

So I read the patch notes for the newest patch and learned that Iceborn Gauntlet is being nerfed for Ezreal again. After this I was done, because I never really like Gauntlet on him anyway.

ROKAF JE told me that a regular ADC build on Ezreal would do more damage than the build I used, which was all AD plus Iceborn Gauntlet. He pretty much showed me the math and told me how much more damage you do with a regular build. However, he forgot to include the Sheen proc and CDR from the items I used, and when I sort of did the math, yes the ADC build did more overall damage but your Q with my build would hit like a truck, and with Ezreal's overall low AA range you probably don't want to sit there AAing.

After the IBG nerfs I realized this would hurt Ezreal too much, as the slow field got lowered too much. Now the slow is only 10% more than Phage's slow, however it lasts a lot less due to the radius of the field. Many people say that it is still good for kiting, but having 8% MS from Trinity Force, the Phage slow, plus Furor boots are enough to kite well.

Then I realized that if I just replaced the Phantom Dancer in ROKAF JE's build with Trinity Force, you would get the Sheen proc plus much more useful overall stats. Meanwhile Iceborn Gauntlet gives you no AD, AS, Crit Strike rate, or any useful ADC stats. It gives Armor which you don't need since you should be away from the fight anyway. It gives CDR which got nerfed anyway, making it overall useless IMO. It gives 10 more AP, which increases your damage from spells by such a small amount. It gives double the mana which is unnecessary, and it gives a worse Sheen proc. Plus the slow got nerfed so it isn't even that good.

That's why I' m going to buy Triforce now instead of IBG.


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ROKAF JE

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Triforce has pretty much always been core on him. I wasn't a fan of IBG.
I think I did include sheen calculations. I don't remember.
Regardless, a crit will always hit harder than your Q.
You can get triforce as well as PD if you really want.


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LoudFootSteps

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROKAF JE View Post
Triforce has pretty much always been core on him. I wasn't a fan of IBG.
I think I did include sheen calculations. I don't remember.
Regardless, a crit will always hit harder than your Q.
You can get triforce as well as PD if you really want.
The thing is, Mystic Shot already has a 1:1 AD Ratio. With the 150% Sheen proc, it gets a 2.5:1 AD Ratio. Critical Strikes do 250% damage with Infinity Edge, which does almost as much damage but not as much due to Mystic Shot's base damage.

Also, building the Sheen proc is also important IMO because it takes full advantage over your Q. Ezreal has a lower AA range than Kog'Maw, Draven, Caitlyn, etc. For Graves, he builds crit because he has no choice but to AA. But Ezreal can take full advantage of his 1100 range skillshot poke, that can deal up to as much damage as a Critical Strike does. Building Triforce gives you 20% less AS and 20% less crit rate, but the Sheen proc, flat AD, and it's other nice stats more than makes up for it.

IBG isn't a very good item for Ezreal, especially with the nerfs. I think people were too excited for having reliable CC that they didn't realize how much damage they sacrifice for it. CC isn't exactly very important as an ADC, as you should be focusing purely on damage in order to shred the enemy bruisers/tanks.


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ROKAF JE

Senior Member

02-16-2013

It's not mystic shot base damage.
It's ezreals base attack damage.

I think we found the reason you thought IBG/Sheen was so good for him.
The ratio doesn't increase because sheen doesn't scale with anything except BASE damage.


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LoudFootSteps

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROKAF JE View Post
It's not mystic shot base damage.
It's ezreals base attack damage.
I think we found the reason you thought IBG/Sheen was so good for Q.
I think I made a mistake when I explained it...

Crit strikes scale with base AD. It also does 250% damage with Infinity Edge.

Mystic Shot has a base 1:1 scaling with Ezreal's AD. Therefore it does Ezreal's base attack damage with some base damage. However, the Sheen proc also adds 150% of Ezreal's base AD to the Mystic Shot, and the proc therefore scales with AD. This effectively gives Mystic Shot a 2.5 AD Ratio. This means that it would do as much damage as a Crit Strike with Infinity Edge, plus Mystic Shot's base damage. So Ezreal's Q will deal more than a Critical Strike.

In the actual game, there will be less opportunities to AA someone than to use your Mystic Shot, since Mystic Shot's range is 1100 and your AA range is much lower (550 I think). So although it may seem like Critical Strikes do more damage, you will be using your Q to do a lot more than what your AA will be doing. Your Q will be your main kiting, harassing, and long range damage tool.

Also, if I build Trinity Force, I will definitely be buying Infinity Edge over a second Bloodthirster. Therefore, I will still be getting Critical Strikes in there, just not as much. However, I will have a more powerful Q and this will more than make up for it.


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ROKAF JE

Senior Member

02-16-2013

I misread it, I guess? I'll have to re read on my computer.

Crits scale with total ad, not base.

Be aware that if you fall behind with nothing but triforce and BT (or just triforce), there's no real coming back/it is unreasonably difficult unless your team carries fights.
I'd definitely get a big ticket item prior to triforce. (IE if behind or BT if ahead)

Remember the AD carry main job is to deal as much damage as possible via auto attacks.
If you're not AAing in a fight, you are not helping your team or doing your job


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Rawrful

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Senior Member

02-16-2013

Loud, you have no idea what you are talking about... Mystic Shot has a 1:1 ratio of total AD. Trinity adds 150% of base AD. Critical Strikes increase the damage of your total AD. This means an Ezreal Q with Trinity and Bloodthirster will do base AD + (base x 1.5) + bonus AD + ability damage. A crit with Infinity/Bloodthirster would do base (base AD + bonus AD) x 2.5

To throw some numbers in there, assuming 100 base damage (Which isn't really true), and a full Bloodthirster and a max level q, a Trinity poke would do ~500 if you take the small AP ratio into account as well. An Infinity/bloodthrister crit would deal 700.

But some things to note about this... Trinity is guaranteed damage. You WILL do that 500 if you hit your q. If you miss it, your damage only drops by the base damage of the skill. And Trinity gives lots of other nice stats. On the other hand, Infinity does more raw damage IF YOU CRIT, and scales way better with other items. If you add another BF sword or something in there, the Infinity crits get way bigger, and the trinity procs stay the same.

So, Trinity is stable damage that doesn't rely on crits or anything but using your abilities, Infinity makes crit auto attacks hit like bricks. Both are very strong items, and work differently depending on what you want.


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LoudFootSteps

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrful View Post
Loud, you have no idea what you are talking about... Mystic Shot has a 1:1 ratio of total AD. Trinity adds 150% of base AD. Critical Strikes increase the damage of your total AD. This means an Ezreal Q with Trinity and Bloodthirster will do base AD + (base x 1.5) + bonus AD + ability damage. A crit with Infinity/Bloodthirster would do base (base AD + bonus AD) x 2.5

To throw some numbers in there, assuming 100 base damage (Which isn't really true), and a full Bloodthirster and a max level q, a Trinity poke would do ~500 if you take the small AP ratio into account as well. An Infinity/bloodthrister crit would deal 700.

But some things to note about this... Trinity is guaranteed damage. You WILL do that 500 if you hit your q. If you miss it, your damage only drops by the base damage of the skill. And Trinity gives lots of other nice stats. On the other hand, Infinity does more raw damage IF YOU CRIT, and scales way better with other items. If you add another BF sword or something in there, the Infinity crits get way bigger, and the trinity procs stay the same.

So, Trinity is stable damage that doesn't rely on crits or anything but using your abilities, Infinity makes crit auto attacks hit like bricks. Both are very strong items, and work differently depending on what you want.
F*ck, sorry. I messed up. I got confused with the wording of the Trinity Force description. As a Fizz player I love to get Lich Bane, and therefore Spellsword is one of my favorite passives in the game. Lich Bane effectively gives Fizz's Q .75 more AP scaling, and therefore I assumed that Trinity Force did the same thing. I didn't realized that the proc itself was with base damage, not with total attack damage, so I assumed it increased Mystic Shot's AD Ratio by 1.5. Sorry about that.

But I definitely think that Trinity Force is better than Iceborn Gauntlet.

EDIT: I looked up the overall cost efficiency and everything, and although Phantom Dancer is cost efficient, Trinity Force is as well. The cost of Trinity Force is higher because it gives better overall stats. Both PD and Triforce are cost efficient without passives.

However, Triforce does cost more and does give more stats. And since cost efficiency does not include passives, Triforce would definitely be a better late game item, right?

Plus Iceborn Gauntlet isn't even cost efficient.


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Archereon

Junior Member

02-16-2013

Two reasons why I prefer Iceborne Gauntlets still over trinity is because you get that CDR which really helps with the Q spam and gets your escape and kiting tool up faster along with Q's passive. You still get an okay amount of attack speed from your own passive, and the slow proc from iceborne is guaranteed unlike Trinity's. It also allows you to kite a team because the slow is a field, while trinity's is single target. It makes you live longer against the opposing adc and the extra damage from trinity isnt a lot due to Q not critting.
IMO the Iceborne Gauntlet is better because it gives better utility and lets ezreal do what ezreal does best, and that is kite (thats why people choose him, otherwise I'd play vayne)


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LoudFootSteps

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archereon View Post
Two reasons why I prefer Iceborne Gauntlets still over trinity is because you get that CDR which really helps with the Q spam and gets your escape and kiting tool up faster along with Q's passive. You still get an okay amount of attack speed from your own passive, and the slow proc from iceborne is guaranteed unlike Trinity's. It also allows you to kite a team because the slow is a field, while trinity's is single target. It makes you live longer against the opposing adc and the extra damage from trinity isnt a lot due to Q not critting.
IMO the Iceborne Gauntlet is better because it gives better utility and lets ezreal do what ezreal does best, and that is kite (thats why people choose him, otherwise I'd play vayne)
I used to buy IBG, but the CDR got nerfed. So, when I think about it, 4 second CD on Q means .4 seconds less CD on your Q. .8 seconds less CD on your E. It's still a pretty small amount. Your W is overall useless IMO and the 10% CDR on your ult won't allow you to use it more than once a teamfight and therefore doesn't really affect it as much.

I only play Ezreal because he is fun. I personally find sitting there AAing overall boring.

Also, an ADC's role is to put out as much damage as possible. They need to shred enemy tanks/bruisers so they don't soak up all the burst/abilities. There is no reason to get a little bit more CC, especially when you can just spam your Q backward to reduce your E's CD and then just spam it.

Ezreal is also more of a poke/harass/farm champion in lane. Especially against strong traders like Graves and Draven, I don't think I would even attempt to trade with them in the first place.

Seriously, you don't need the armor from IBG. If you really need armor pick up a GA. That's enough armor plus it gives you an amazing passive.


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