Can we please have a serious discussion about AP Tryndamere

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Venustas

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Your argument hinges on X things.

1. AD Tryn has no access whatsoever to CDR. You seem to trumpet the spammability of your spells a whole huggy bunch, Oh you can reduce attack damage every 8 seconds instead of every 15? Well **** THAT TOTALLY JUSTIFIES IT THEN.

2. You do not, infact, have as much cooldown on your spin as an AD tryn. You tried to say building attackspeed is important, as it lets you crit occasionally, further reducing the cooldown. But since you're building AP, THAT'S ALL IT DOES and since his passive crit is 35% with a full rage bar (and you heartily reccomend spamming the **** out of it) YOU DON'T HAVE THE CRIT. You are trusting statistics and as we all know when you do that god kills an economist.

3. You break down Tryn into a character with 5 abilities. But that's so wrong.He has 6, since autoattacking is technically a spell, just one with a retardly short cooldown and no costs. (I'll break down your 1 AD = 44g 1 AP =22 next, we'll just focus on ratios here.) So his mystical 6th ability has a 100% AD ratio BEFORE WE TAKE CRIT INTO ACCOUNT. Then it becomes 250% full build. So smack an extra 250% into the AD ratios column and do try to remember you get to cast it twice per second. Yes I am aware that sometimes it's hard to reach people, but that's why the gave us a slow, and then a spin that resets its cooldown provided we hit them twice.

Your AP tryn on the other hand has JUST a slow. since using his spin to catch up to a fight would be like Master Yi Qing to GET to the fight. NO *****, YOU NEED THE DAMAGE FOR THE FIGHT.

4. " AP is cheaper" Want to know what AD does? It multiplies itself. Can your spells crit? No? Well then, turns out AD is actually HALF as expensive when we take the crit into account. Were you ignoring the crit? On TRYN?? Although you do seem to make a big deal about the laning phase...

5. Laning is better as AP (nice segue, right.) - and here is the one point you win hands down. It is. But since you butchered all your late game damage to be able to heal through one persons burst, that's it for you in teamfights. They handle you EXACTLY like they handle regular tryn but with the added benefit THEY CAN LET YOU HIT THEM.

6. Tank Tryn is where it's at. All I've seen you talk about is AD and AP. Edukate yourself son.


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FowD8

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Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venustas View Post
Your argument hinges on X things.

1. AD Tryn has no access whatsoever to CDR. You seem to trumpet the spammability of your spells a whole huggy bunch, Oh you can reduce attack damage every 8 seconds instead of every 15? Well **** THAT TOTALLY JUSTIFIES IT THEN.

2. You do not, infact, have as much cooldown on your spin as an AD tryn. You tried to say building attackspeed is important, as it lets you crit occasionally, further reducing the cooldown. But since you're building AP, THAT'S ALL IT DOES and since his passive crit is 35% with a full rage bar (and you heartily reccomend spamming the **** out of it) YOU DON'T HAVE THE CRIT. You are trusting statistics and as we all know when you do that god kills an economist.

3. You break down Tryn into a character with 5 abilities. But that's so wrong.He has 6, since autoattacking is technically a spell, just one with a retardly short cooldown and no costs. (I'll break down your 1 AD = 44g 1 AP =22 next, we'll just focus on ratios here.) So his mystical 6th ability has a 100% AD ratio BEFORE WE TAKE CRIT INTO ACCOUNT. Then it becomes 250% full build. So smack an extra 250% into the AD ratios column and do try to remember you get to cast it twice per second. Yes I am aware that sometimes it's hard to reach people, but that's why the gave us a slow, and then a spin that resets its cooldown provided we hit them twice.

Your AP tryn on the other hand has JUST a slow. since using his spin to catch up to a fight would be like Master Yi Qing to GET to the fight. NO *****, YOU NEED THE DAMAGE FOR THE FIGHT.

4. " AP is cheaper" Want to know what AD does? It multiplies itself. Can your spells crit? No? Well then, turns out AD is actually HALF as expensive when we take the crit into account. Were you ignoring the crit? On TRYN?? Although you do seem to make a big deal about the laning phase...

5. Laning is better as AP (nice segue, right.) - and here is the one point you win hands down. It is. But since you butchered all your late game damage to be able to heal through one persons burst, that's it for you in teamfights. They handle you EXACTLY like they handle regular tryn but with the added benefit THEY CAN LET YOU HIT THEM.

6. Tank Tryn is where it's at. All I've seen you talk about is AD and AP. Edukate yourself son.
1. never said AD trynd can't build CDR, but by doing so it hurts his early-mid game even worse than it already is and takes him even longer to get to late game where is where he shines... so do you really want to hinder his already worst phase just to keep up with AP Trynd?

2. Nashor's Tooth... enough said

3. First off that 250% crit doesn't come until IE, and if you're rushing that, you're building AD Trynd completely wrong, I like how you're making everything relative to super late game... well you know, there's 2 other phases before late game, early-mid and those 2 are the absolute hardest for Trynd, if you can't survive them, you won't ever get to late game

fyi AP trynd also has that 6th ability and will be using it fully to his advantage having built Nashor's Tooth, I can guarantee you AD Trynd's build will be slower to gain AS T2 boots > zeal, all while AP Trynd still got a bunch of AP from Nashor's Tooth for sustain and dmg... meanwhile with the same gold Trynd is still waiting on sustain

4. Are you ignoring Deathcap? you want to talk 250% from IE, but yet completely ignore 35% AP from deathcap, why? you need to take both into consideration

AP: 22, with deathcap 14.3g per AP
AD: 44, with IE and 100% crit, 17.6 per AD

^ AP is still cheaper

5. Except 1. you don't butcher you're end game dmg and 2. you have to survive the laning phase to get to late game, AD Trynd has a horrible early game, thus making his late game take forever to get into, not so with AP Trynd

but to further elaborate with AP Trynd, 600 dmg per spin, 5 sec CD, easily resets thx to AS and passive... not only that but 600 AoE, can easily attack 2 people with it, that's 1200 dmg per 5 sec, lich bane procs do an additional 600 dmg, that's now 1800 dmg per 5 seconds, with resets you'll easily be doing that in half the time, so it's more like 1800 dmg per 2.5 seconds, oh but there's more, guess what, AP Trynd can still AA, and has plenty of AS to do so, easily another 400 dmg per 2.5 sec... so I wouldn't call 2200 dmg every 2.5 seconds as "gimping his dmg"... not to mention most AD Trynds have AD runes, AP Trynd actually goes with Arm Pen runes which is stronger late game than AD

6. Low base dmg with high cooldowns, not to mention you're hurting his Q passive by going tanky... nty


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îTrYnDaMeRe

Senior Member

02-17-2013

imo ap trynd is a lazy way to toplane as per he has infinite substain with zero fury as per ad trynd require skills to survive in lane and u must outplay ur opponent to win in most cases high risk brings high reward.

ap trynd can work for sure as an absorber tank, an unmovable object in top lane and to dupe ur opponent to attack u in 5vs5, it can work for sure and it is viable in good hands but the lack of damage that ap trynd brings in teamfigths is just an embarrassment to the only true aa champion in league he is the only melee champ in league that is based off aa and u wanna build him ap pfft.

I do have a junglemagetrynda setup when I face the likes of kartus or maybe lux and cait due to their unexpected ult but I still build him ad and add a rageblade to get a more pwerfull q.

Ap trynd more viable than bruiser trynd but cmon play ad trynd and when u have a really hard matchup top lane for example nasus or teemo or nunu switch to magetrynda


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îTrYnDaMeRe

Senior Member

02-17-2013

i wanted to add that noobameres will take ad runes cause they cant last hit. A good trynda will always go armor pen cause its just better overall.

I was looking at ur setup u take no ap in the masterie tree and no ap in ur runes. u dont need resistance u heal with Q and with zero fury. In my experience jungle trynd gets away with no defense and ad trynd top lane needs some defensive stats to trade early but u go ap trynd imo u need no defense u heal with Q and disengage with e

please check my setup its more efficient


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Recently

Senior Member

02-17-2013

I dunno about a build that uses its main escape tool as its main source of damage especially on a naturally squishy body. To me, this is like AP trist but worse since she has a definite window of power at least (~20 mins or so).


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cottonycloud

Senior Member

02-17-2013

AP Tryndamere is ridiculously annoying.


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FailyMcSadPants

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Ya kids get rolled y a troll build. Good work.

Fioras W has ap ratios = build her ap ftw.

God damn this games community is such **** in the last year its stupid.

It works all of 1% of the time, because YOU or THEY are bad, and got beat by you.
The other 99% of the time AP Trynd ****s his entire team over and loses the game.

Prob need to nerf it with GD logic.


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FowD8

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Senior Member

02-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FailyMcSadPants View Post
Ya kids get rolled y a troll build. Good work.

Fioras W has ap ratios = build her ap ftw.

God damn this games community is such **** in the last year its stupid.

It works all of 1% of the time, because YOU or THEY are bad, and got beat by you.
The other 99% of the time AP Trynd ****s his entire team over and loses the game.

Prob need to nerf it with GD logic.
tl;dr: "Ap Trynd is a troll pick"

yet another person that brings nothing to the table... gj on your useless post


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Ixeo

Senior Member

02-27-2013

One thing I hate about this community is people who believe they are smart and know about the game when they are in fact relatively fresh 30s with mediocre ELO. These players can be adamant that a champion is strong or so because they went 20-4 with them in a game facing players of the same, relatively low skill level. They really have no idea what higher level play can be like against people who have played the game for longer than them.

I've played since a bit before Akali was released. I've played on many different accounts -- this was my first account, and I ONLY post on this account since I'm not a weirdo who would post under multiple identities. So why did I make multiple names? Banned? No! When I first got to level 30, I would eventually come across players who were WAY better than me, and I couldn't understand why. I would assume that I "missed something" in the learning process (lvl 1 --> lvl 30) and I'd make a new name and start learning again. Unfortunately getting to level 30 means nothing at all. The game requires LOTS, and LOTS of experience.

All this said, I'm still not a great player. I'm a gold. I get matched with mostly golds and silvers, and occasionally plats in normal 5s.

THAT SAID, I have seen plenty of <good> AP Tryndameres. It is probably one of the most broken things in the game. He will beat you in lane and will make it look like he isn't trying. The first time you see it, you will be frustrated as **** and equally baffled. It's not troll. It's broken. The time I would see AP Trynd the most is if I play late at night (3am-5am) and get matched with very skilled Korean players (you can tell by the Korean symbols in the summoner names). I actually try to force myself not to play at that time, because I think it is THE MOST anti-fun thing in the entire ****ing game.

Anyone who has posted stuff like, "Oh PFFTT Just because he has AP ratios doesn't mean IT"LL BE GOOD!" You're one of the mediocre-skilled, mediocre-experienced players I was referring to earlier. You simply have not seen it yet in your elo yet -- sorry. OP is correct; it is broken, and far superior to AD Tryn.


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BorderlineNinja

Junior Member

07-25-2013

I'm not a skilled player but I've played Tryndamere both AP and AD. I for one prefer AP because AP items have a higher numbers to them helping his e and i also enjoy watching my health go from 10% up to 70% with a single q, there are some down sides though, without any AS i find it harder to fill my fury gauge for a good q (which is much weaker without fury) so I need to use a well placed e for fury (usually just one hit a wave of minions and I'm back to full not hard) the other issue is just that you don't deal as much AA dmg and will be more cooldown reliant (doesn't matter if they're long or not they're still there).
AD Tryndamere i enjoy the bonus crit chance allowing for less focus on crit items and more space for AD or life steal items in a build, also less worries about cooldowns, but I find it harder to jump in and survive in fights I also find it harder to escape if needed.

watered down sum up:
AP trynd has a great heal (if he has the fury)
and a much stronger e (personally)
AD trynd has great dps
no cooldown reliance

a good AP trynd will be a great asset for their team, a bad AP trynd will feed and yell to their team in chat (usually after getting nagged at for playing AP trynd (<--- I've really been nagged about this before... in a bot match))

a good AD trynd will also be a great asset to the team, and a bad AD trynd will feed then yell in all chat about lag and how if they got one more hit they would've killed them (<--- not really i have no idea)

lastly a bad player will be a liability for their team then blame their team when they die.

(please note: this is built off of my personal experience and that also means it's built off any lack of experience about high ranked games. This is my opinion on this matter.)