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question about swain passive

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XxXFrostQueenXxX

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Soferir:
Frost, Swain's passive is actually free health too, you can use the mana with his ult to heal. You gotta look at the whole kits, if Swain's passive was stronger he'd be MUCH harder to harass, he'd have over all more mana to use his ult with and shrug off your harass. Karthus has to build spell vamp, but Swain's ult gives him a free 25% spell vamp on minions and 75% on champions, and if Swain builds extra spell vamp.... Oh god the heals on that ult.

you have a acceptable answer cereal does not!


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XxXFrostQueenXxX

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
CerealBoxOfDoom:
By this sort of logic, morg and nasus are pretty much the same champ if you ignore the rest of their kit

plz exprane your self here how is that what i said saying that lol one gets life steal in a passive and the other gets spell vamp as a passive and they completly diffrent skills these 2 passive do 2 diffrent things one heals for spells the other one for aa attks


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
XxXFrostQueenXxX:
plz exprane your self here how is that what i said saying that lol one gets life steal in a passive and the other gets spell vamp as a passive and they completly diffrent skills these 2 passive do 2 diffrent things one heals for spells the other one for aa attks

aa attacks or onhit skills. In anycase, ignoring tiny details like the difference between spellvamp and lifesteal can be just as bad as ignoring the differences between two entire kits only to focus on the few similarities. You cannot just compare two passives and expect a meaningful response to any balance question unless it somehow violates the suggested "bounds of acceptable things" like giving stuns to stealth champs or something like that. Even then you have to look at the entire kit


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GlyphTsen

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
XxXFrostQueenXxX:
umm at lvl 2 or 1 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 its better than swains accually any lvl you get its better than swains passive and the cd is short enuff to be back on to consistently kill creeps with it


The CD is short enough, sure, but it still won't be active while using Defile (yes, it's possible to turn it off after weakening enemies but you still have to follow it up), and you still have to invest ranks into an ability you are purposefully avoiding use of in order to get mana returns.

Further more, you should really still consider the rest of the kit as well. In addition to points made earlier by others about health return (for example) it's also very true that Swain has a much easier time killing minions without spending mana, thanks to his better attack range and more importantly faster attack animation (attack speed is the same but Karthus' attack animation is one of the worst in the game).


Regardless, it is perfectly reasonable for any champion to have a weaker version of a given ability if the rest of their kit makes up for it.

Examples include Volibear and Mundo, Olaf and Lee Sin, MF and Teemo, etc.


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