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Quinn and Valor Gameplay feedback

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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Ok, now that I have had a chance to play Quinn, some feedback.


Harrier (passive):
Valor periodically marks enemies as Vulnerable. Quinn's first attack against Vulnerable targets will deal bonus physical damage


Awesome, I feel that how often Valor comes down to mark a target is pretty good. I also think that the way the mark appears is good.

Suggestions
Allow this mark to be procced by Q and E.
I think thats fair. Considering the range at which this mark is sometimes applied, having Q proc the innate just makes sense.
With E proccing the mark it might become a bit strong, due to it applying the mark as well.
But its a suggustion. I do think Q procing the mark is a must though.
As for requested feedback.

-Satisfying to hit for that bonus poke. Encourages skirmishes in lane. Allows you to farm until an opportunity arises to hit this mark.

-Unsatisfying when you see Valor coming down and you ready an auto, but your auto hits before the mark is applied. Especially when you are anticipating that bonus damage for a last hit.

- best gameplay is during lane. While teamfighting, it does offer the option to hit a marked target to gain the bonus attack speed and then return to your target of choice. However this makes it difficult to teamfight if paying to much attention to it rather than accurate focus.

- Q not procing the mark is where it falls short of expectations.

- Playing against harrier is interesting. You need to play extra careful when you are marked, requires smart positioning etc. But leaves Quinn open to harrass after enemy valor has recently marked another target.

Blinding Assault (Q):
Valor flies out in a line, blinding and damaging all targets near the first target hit.


Awesome ability, however, the blind particle is hard a little difficult to see. Should be made a bit more definitive.

Suggestion

Either
1) Allow it to pass through units for reduced damage
or
2) Increase its damage slightly

I think in its current state, its early game damage isnt all the great. Late game its damage is good, but its a little lack-luster early.

Heightened Senses (W):
Active: Valor reveals a large area nearby.
Passive: Quinn gains increased Attack Speed after attacking a Vulnerable target. Valor gains increased Attack Speed permanently. (Affecting Tag Team)


I like it as an idea, but....

Suggestions
Allow the active part of the ability to follow her. That is, if you cast it at a certain location. Valor follows you. So that as you move during the duration, parts behind you go out of range are no longer revealed, but ahead of you is revealed as it comes into range.

The passive is good.

Vault (E):
Quinn dashes to an enemy, dealing physical damage and slowing the target's Movement Speed. Upon reaching the target, she leaps off and lands near her maximum attack range from it. Valor will immediately mark this enemy as Vulnerable.


Good ability

However, she can get stunned mid-cast, and thus not jump back off her opponent.
I dont know if this is a bug or not. But I think that if you are stunned mid-way through, you get stunned AFTER you have completed the jump back to max range.

The targeting of the ability seems to be good enough. However, an indicator of WHERE she will jump back to would be usefull. For example, when targetting, the range indicator displays not only the line to the target and the circle around them, but also a line away from the target ending in an arrow or circle at your max range, indicating where you will land after casting the ability.

Tag Team (R):
Valor replaces Quinn on the battlefield as a mobile melee attacker. He gains a large Movement Speed bonus when out of combat and a smaller one when in combat.
Skystrike (R2):
When ready, Quinn returns in a hail of arrows, dealing physical damage to all nearby enemies, increased based on their missing health.


Her burst ability with this is actually quite nice while as Valor. That is the suggestion combo or R (becoming Valor) then E, attack, Q, R2. Id agree that its fairly balanced considering the danger your in by putting yourself in that position.

HOWEVER
While as Quinn, attempting to double cast R quickly, isnt very nice.

If, you could cast R2 immediately after casting R, it would be a much better ability on the whole.

I agree tag-team isnt a push to win button, and i think thats why theres a delay inbetween casting R and R2. But I think being able to cast R for the second time immediately after casting R for the first time would help.

So, As Valor, the potential of this ult is great, and its burst isnt too high.

But as Quinn, you only ever really cast her ult to reposition or to escape or to catch somebody.
Of those, only the third option allows your to really make use of the damage with R2.
I believe having the option to doulbe tap R, would help her use this ability as a damage source more often. Especially when attempting to finish off high damage or high sustain melee champions. Such as Darius, Cho or Garen with their ults. Or against a Warwick or Fiora who is saving their ult until they are low for large amounts of regen.

Overall, i think how Tag-team is explained here

Quote:
Volty:

I really emphasize that last point--Tag Team isn't a "push to win" button. It's got huge potential when used smartly, and my advice is to make sure that you're getting one of three benefits from each cast, at least:

Long-distance strategic movement
Chasing fleeing targets and finishing them off
Fleeing from pressure and reapproaching a fight from a different angle

So does this work for you? I'd love to hear your success (or failure) stories.

-Volty


I think that is pretty accurate as to how it can be used in its current state.

But I think allowing the option to quickly double tap R (within the space or 1 or 2 seconds) those as to finish of those low hp champions that you are struggling to kill, would just add that little bit more to her overall.

Just my 2 cents. Of course, these veiws may change as i slowly get used to her more and more.

I do believe she has large damage potential even if you do 0 damage with your ult in a teamfight. SO as i get more used to how her ult works my veiw on it may change.
But atm, i think the option for quickly activating it twice should be applied.


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Drodeka:
What if she could hold her Vault on target and then release in the direction she wanted to jump? Raising the cooldown and/or lowering the damage would make this a fair change from a combat ability, to legitimate utility in her kit.

Food for thought.


Another idea


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DEagleEye

Senior Member

02-15-2013

bumping for veiws and discussion


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Dahaka

Senior Member

02-15-2013

If you die in bird form, do you die in human form?


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Trogman

Junior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Dahaka:
If you die in bird form, do you die in human form?

Yup, you're just dead


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Dahaka

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Trogman:
Yup, you're just dead


So then aside from escapes I never have a reason to use bird form


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
DEagleEye:

Suggestions
Allow this mark to be procced by Q and E.
I think thats fair. Considering the range at which this mark is sometimes applied, having Q proc the innate just makes sense.
With E proccing the mark it might become a bit strong, due to it applying the mark as well.
But its a suggustion. I do think Q procing the mark is a must though.
As for requested feedback.

Vault definitely does not need to proc marks, and it's not necessary on Blinding Assault, which deals good damage. E-auto-Q is a lot of burst that leaves the enemy carry only able to fight back with skills.

Quote:

[B][U]Blinding Assault (Q):
Either
1) Allow it to pass through units for reduced damage
or
2) Increase its damage slightly

Making it pass through enemies is just going to make it an old Ezreal Essence Flux, albeit slightly weaker. If you're going to do either of those changes, then you have to remove the blind or at least make it more difficult to apply.

Quote:

Vault (E):
Quinn dashes to an enemy, dealing physical damage and slowing the target's Movement Speed. Upon reaching the target, she leaps off and lands near her maximum attack range from it. Valor will immediately mark this enemy as Vulnerable.


Good ability

However, she can get stunned mid-cast, and thus not jump back off her opponent.
I dont know if this is a bug or not. But I think that if you are stunned mid-way through, you get stunned AFTER you have completed the jump back to max range.

I'm assuming this is counter play. Considering the ability is essentially worth 2.5 auto attacks.

Quote:

I agree tag-team isnt a push to win button, and i think thats why theres a delay inbetween casting R and R2. But I think being able to cast R for the second time immediately after casting R for the first time would help.


The second cast in an execution. Optimally (to use the second cast), you'll want to use this ability to get in range on a low health target in order to burst them down with the second cast. For what it is, it's versatile.

Also, the burst is balanced in the sense that it doesn't increase from Quinn, it's just easier to get all of your damage onto a target because everything becomes targeted.

Quote:

I do believe she has large damage potential even if you do 0 damage with your ult in a teamfight. SO as i get more used to how her ult works my veiw on it may change.
But atm, i think the option for quickly activating it twice should be applied.
The thing about her ultimate is that it's not something you cast at the start of a fight. You use it more near the end when you need it to escape and catch, as you've already mentioned. Another use, though not as efficient due to the high cooldown, is abusing the 80% AS to split push turrets down really fast.


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Trogman

Junior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Dahaka:
So then aside from escapes I never have a reason to use bird form

Val has great potential when chasing a target, and doing a lot of burst damage. Also if built purely as glass cannon ADC Val is not that good (squishy and has to be in melee range) granted you deal a lot more damage. If built a little tanky, with some damage (triforce, BC, etc.), Val is amazing and great potential in team fights.


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Trogman:
Val has great potential when chasing a target, and doing a lot of burst damage. Also if built purely as glass cannon ADC Val is not that good (squishy and has to be in melee range) granted you deal a lot more damage. If built a little tanky, with some damage (triforce, BC, etc.), Val is amazing and great potential in team fights.

Where are people getting the idea that Valor deals a lot more burst? He has more attack speed, but he doesn't get any damage bonuses over Quinn when using Vault or Blinding Assault.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Soiyeruda:
Where are people getting the idea that Valor deals a lot more burst? He has more attack speed, but he doesn't get any damage bonuses over Quinn when using Vault or Blinding Assault.


The way I see it, Its Quinn who has the really strong burst damage. Try letting Val mark a target then hit AA -> E -> AA for a quick double proc of her passive. It does a hell of a lot of spike damage.

Valor on the other hand has really good sustained damage. Permanent 80% AS for the duration, with a PB AoE, gap closer and slow to boot. That's not really a bursty kit. It just feels bursty because the attack speed is so high and it shreds if you build glass cannon.


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