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Quinn and Valor PBE Feedback Prompts

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XasianbearX

Junior Member

02-16-2013

I really like playing as Quinn and Volar as their kit is very unique and fun to master but i dont like the responsiveness of harrier as there is no indication of time at all before and during the targeting process


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RyuuMasken

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
Volty:

1. Harrier target selection and frequency


The frequency seems fine to me so far, but the target selection has a few things that bug me. It seems to often select creep that I am about to kill as my auto is in the air. Because of this, I keep losing out on the ASPD and extra damage for lifesteal sustain.

I also dislike how Valor will often select the support sitting in a warded brush. It's a clear indication to the enemy team that you definitely have a ward there, giving them free reign to pink ward it, or at least the ability to back off before you're in a proper position to take advantage of your sight. It feels like most situations where Valor targets the support in the brush have higher potential to have a bad effect on the player than a good outcome overall. IMO Valor should treat targets in brush that aren't in combat with a lower priority to reduce this.

I also noticed that Valor seems to always target the little lizards in buff camps. This seems a little weird as when you are leashing, you want to do as much damage to the buff as possible, and when you are getting a buff you want to kill it as fast as possible. Throwing the mark on a small lizard is a little awkward. I think this might be because Valor is marking whatever target he perceives in combat, and since the buff hasn't auto'd yet, he only sees the small lizards. IMO, buffs should have some special exception to be targeted while they are not in combat, but only while Quinn is in combat herself. They should also have a really low priority to everything besides the small lizards to prevent Valor flying over to it during a jungle teamfight.

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2. Burst potential during Tag Team


The execute on Tag Team seems a little high to me. I had a situation earlier where I blew up two people at half health with it and came out clean in a situation where I should have died.

Playing as Valor is also a little awkward. No collision is really nice, but now he moves so fast that it's a little hard to control. Valor being so small also makes it difficult to track yourself in a hectic fight. I also personally feel as if the high MS + no collision is a little ridiculous, several times today I found myself in situations where I made a mistake and should definitely be punished hard for it, but instead I could just press R and run away, wait a few seconds, and come back and destroy the fight. The no collision is good, especially thematically, but I think she should lose a little MS on her ult for it.

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3. Chasing sustained dps as Quinn (not as Valor)


I've actually been having a bit of a difficult time chasing as Quinn. If I don't have red buff or fromal, I always feel like I'm just a little too far away from a lot of my targets. There have been a few situations where I would auto an enemy I was chasing and then they'd inch out of my range while I was firing, and after that hit I just couldn't reach them anymore. There were also some situations where I'd want to E for my passive, but I was worried about hitting the auto and then falling out of range. Nasus' Wither, for example, will make it so if you E him, you won't be able to hit him afterwords.


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4. Did you successfully use Vault to escape over a wall?


Almost! But I died mid flight.

Overall I think Quinn is really cool and fun. Her E auto combo feels SO COOL. I also like a lot of the little touches, like how she'll reload her crossbow and the VO line "Stick to the plan, Val...". That line is just awesome and tells so much about Valor's personality and the relationship between the two.

One criticism I do have is that something about her auto feels too much like Vayne's. They both fire with a similar stance, and the design of the tip of the crossbow from a distance sort of looks like a fist. Their weapons also sound similar(to be expected because lol crossbows), and the only big differentiating thing between them is that KATHUNK from Vayne hitting an opponent. I very frequently found myself counting hits and wondering why I didn't burst after the third. IMO this is a pretty important issue that should be looked at carefully--I think a few minor tweaks to exactly how Quinn fires her weapon could remedy this issue.


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Kaze Rurouni

Recruiter

02-17-2013

Ok, I've only had the time to play her once, but I'll still give my first opinion.

Overall, I think she's awesome. She is a lot of fun to play, and I can already tell she'll likely be a popular champ once people learn her. Her abilities seem to blend together quite nicely, and most of them seem balanced. My issue comes with her W's passive attack speed.

At rank 1, it's already more than a zeal. At max, it's just short of a PD. This seems a bit out of line, as I was able to just rush an Infinity Edge and I had the dps as if I had a zeal or PD on top of it. Couple that with her blind, and that will win her fights easily. Tell me, in her current state, how would a nunu/Quinn combo lose? The dps that would come from that would be too much to handle, and that chasing ability would make escape nearly impossible. I don't have a huge problem with Val having massive speed, as I feel like if people tried to use that as a main teamfight form, they'll suffer the same fate all melee carries do in this meta. I really just think the passive on that W needs to be looked at a little more.

Also, I kinda feel like the VO for her Vault is lackluster. It's a badass flip, but when I hear her passively groan as she does it, it kinda makes it a little anti-climactic. Compare that sound file to, say, Varus. I'm not saying I want her screaming, but I just feel like Quinn's VO right there didn't have as much...energy, I guess.

So yeah, those are just my 2 cents.


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AaronChakra

Member

02-17-2013

I really like quinn but some feedback.

Quinns auto attack timing is off.

Her auto doesn't feel really rewarding as she just stands in one position and shoots her cross bow. It would feel better if she moved more and made a noise while shooting like ezreal does.

Her attack speed from her w doesn't apply until the next auto attack after hitting a vulnerable target.


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Alithalor

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Having Quinn and Valor share CDs feels a bit clunky.


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Darkkor

Recruiter

02-17-2013

Her jump back ability is kinda weird. Like there no reward for using it. they get to punish you more than you get to punish them. Especially in lane.


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

02-17-2013

I really wish her R felt more like a "summon pet" ability and less like a "turn into a bird" ability...


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Draaaaaaavén

Senior Member

02-17-2013

I feel her passive should have a timer on the buff bar to show when Valor will mark things. It'd allow more aggressive/defensive play as well as generally tighter play. Now I have to guess when it's going to be up, otherwise I'll attack a minion and then it'll be marked and I'll get 1cs from it, whereas I could've attacked a different minion, backed up a bit to allow the passive to mark something, kill the first minion and then kill the marked.

It seems like a small change, but it allows for higher play and easier play at the same time.


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CIinik

Senior Member

02-17-2013

Quote:
1. Harrier target selection and frequency
[QUOTE]
Harrier is something I'm very interested to see your responses to. Please be as complete as possible when describing situations where Harrier was either satisfying or dissapointing. When is Harrier creating the best gameplay? When does it fall short of expectations? Please describe how it feels to play against Harrier--I expect that this mechanic does create meaningful play and counterplay for both parties in a lot of (not all) situations..
[/QUOTE]
As far as Harrier goes, I have mixed feelings. Sometimes I feel like a total badass when I'm in lane and I'm getting harrier marks on all the minions I'm csing, and I feel like Valor and I are perfectly in sync. Then again there's other times where valor will, say, continually mark the cannon minion that's at full HP. In that case I just feel like he's teasing me or goading me into pushing the lane.
I think if I were to give one bit of feedback on Harrier, and I'm not sure how difficult this would be to implement, I would suggest maybe a longer cooldown on Harrier, but allowing the player to sort of choose the target based on who or what they are actively attacking. I know it's impossible to know what the players thoughts are, but cursor data may be helpful here.
If that idea is bogus, I still like Harrier. It's fun to play with and I feel like I've got a bit of control over it because Valor only marks targets in range. So if I really, really don't want to mark that cannon minion or the enemy champ that I can't just quite get in range to harass, then I hang back and get free and easy farm on melee minions.
It's a good mechanic, these are just some random thoughts and ramblings I had on it.
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2. Burst potential during Tag Team
[QUOTE]
We are carefully watching burst damage dealt by Valor during Tag Team, usually from casting E,attack,Q,Skystrike. We think this is probably close to balanced at present but it's definitely something I'm keeping an eye on.
[/QUOTE]
I've completely obliterated people with this combo. I'll start off with E to close the gap, AA, then Q, possibly another AA, switch back to Quinn, get the extra damage in and if they're still alive I just press E again and finish them off with the slow and some Harrier AA's. It's totally brutal, quite possibly too brutal. But then again she's squishy and having a melee champ doing all that stuff who has no hp/resistances in the middle of the fray is a huge risk. All in all I like her ult. It's weak if you use it wrong, and incredibly powerful if you use it right. Seems like it's working as intended.
Quote:

3. Chasing sustained dps as Quinn (not as Valor)
[QUOTE]
Quinn is good at being offensive and exploiting tactical openings, either created by Harrier or emergent from normal laning play. What I want a check on is whether her sustained autoattack damage in these scenarios feels unfair (playing as or against.) Potential causes are high base MS and the Attack Speed steroid on W. Note that as Valor, I WANT you to feel very powerful chasing fleeing targets.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think her sustain is that unfair. She actually goes OOM pretty fast if she just spams Q, which is how I get most of my damage out of her. I think her E is excellent for chasing or fleeing, and her ult is absolutely perfect for chasing fleeing targets, just about on the same level as Caitlyn's Ace in the Hole when it comes to securing a kill on a fleeing target.
One thing I've been abusing is her W+E combo, and let me explain how. Let's say you're bot lane and you get their adc low, they run up river and try to escape towards blue, running towards their tribush. I simply take a few steps towards dragon, press W, get vision, and E over the wall TOWARDS the escaping champ. If done properly and at the right angle, you can hop on top of many escaping champs this way. It's definitely a stretch and it doesn't always work, but I can forsee some loud shoutcasters yelling about how crazy it was when quinn secured a kill over a wall with her W's active.
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4. Did you successfully use Vault to escape over a wall?
[QUOTE]
My hat off to you then. Well done.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. I already mentioned her W+E combo. Well, this works on creeps too, obviously. You can W+E over a wall to escape TOWARDS a jungle creep like blue or red buff, separating you from whomever is chasing you, or you can backflip over a wall and escape them assuming they try to corner you. Very powerful, and I like it.


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Draaaaaaavén

Senior Member

02-17-2013

I think you'll wanna rework your [QUOTE]'s