The systems faults

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Shiister

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoboslayer View Post
its called sampling. did i once say that EVERYONE is immature? no. Im just showing that those type of people exist, and they are the reason the tribunal doesnt work well
You don't sample 1 or 2 things and say "This is how this works", lol. It's whatever, just wanted to point that out. Also, I'm sure you have said everyone, mostly those who are Pro-Trib, are immature.


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Leo2k5

Senior Member

02-14-2013

I would never punish for non-abusive swearing. We're grown-ups (mostly); we can handle some f-bombs.

I strongly suspect, however, that the swearing is not the reason you were punished. You want a more detailed system? This forum is it. Anyone who has questions can post their reform card and get a detailed explanation.

Shiister don't even bother replying to Hoboslayer; he's just a troll. Just downvote and ignore him, he'll go away eventually.


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Domitorius

Junior Member

02-14-2013

ok Leo you are the reason the system fails and im sorry to say so. Hobo is the only one who is reading this post as it should be and being open minded about it. You saying "Shiister don't even bother replying to Hoboslayer; he's just a troll. Just downvote and ignore him, he'll go away eventually." is as belittling as a comment in game that should get you banned.

Now the point im trying to get across is the system is flawed. What do you think the definition is for Tribunal? now personally i feel its a justice system to allow people to share their opinion on a matter and allow someone to come to an educated resolution. The system does not allow this. It is a one sided report, allowing comments to persuade an individual to see their point. The system is one sided.

Yes someone can read the chat, however as it is reported, the individual is already reading it in a negative manner, then to add a comment from an individual to further persuade them that this act is malicious or whatever, worsens their oppinion. Take for example "Get ****ed" how many times have you said that to your friend as a joke? personally it will be a lot. Does that mean im trying to be rude to him? how does someone know. You dont, and really the only person is the guy who said it, however you have reports from people taking it the wrong way. Now the judicator or whatever you call the tribunal people is reading it as an offensive statement.

How is this system not flawed?


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Shiister

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitorius View Post
Hobo is the only one who is reading this post as it should be and being open minded about it.
Only person to agree with you out of most people in this thread

He must be the only rational minded individual huh?


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Domitorius

Junior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiister View Post
Only person to agree with you out of most people in this thread

He must be the only rational minded individual huh?

Please rebuttal my statement about the topic of the thread and not waste peoples time with these statements then.


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Shiister

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitorius View Post
Please rebuttal my statement about the topic of the thread and not waste peoples time with these statements then.
Your OP is just assumptions about Tribunal due to you being currently banned. I gave you info on why you how you can get your reform card, when you do finally get it and we can see your behavior, then I will make up a response towards your entire first post.


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Domitorius

Junior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiister View Post
Your OP is just assumptions about Tribunal due to you being currently banned. I gave you info on why you how you can get your reform card, when you do finally get it and we can see your behavior, then I will make up a response towards your entire first post.

Clearly you do not understand and that is ok. I would ask then you to read other threads because you will not get what you wish because I am trying to make this about the system not me. If you cannot understand this, i cannot explain it any other way for you to understand.

I assumed this was pretty easy


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Kantala

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitorius View Post
To now go back to the tribunal system. I am questioning the systems purpose and effectiveness. Personally i would love to know why i got banned, was it me swearing? or did someone on my team or their team feel i was rude personally to them. A short reason why, paragraph or something would assist the person to know how to fix their issue.
Swearing for me shouldn't be a ban-able offence, you have the filter system, and hell i have turned on even though i swear. When someone is swearing to intimidate another, that is offensive. Also in what tribunal or law system does the accused not have a say? I choose not to report players as i feel it is game and I only play random matches not ranked, so everyone will get over it. Most wont share my view and that is fine.
So why do we report? most of the time its because of a loss, and someone took offence to something someone said. In my review one of the reports were for intentionally feeding, I can see how someone can get upset with that however a bad game does not mean someone is feeing but thats fine, thats another story and i dont care about that one.
All i want from this is for people to read and give their opinions on how the system can improve. I suggest all banned players receive a written report on why they were, also a system that allows player to defend themselves. As it stands now I obviously feel i was unjustly banned because, Yes i swore, and yes one game i had 8/15 kd and looking at chat log makes me look like a jerk because I use fowl language, but should that be a ban-able offence? Or should the content in which it is used be looked at more.
Is this system truly fair for all?
I have to agree with Shiister. We're here to help people that post their reform cards. To all the forum goers here, we can't accept your word as law when it comes to your case because you won't show all of the proof, just a brief snippet. Because of that, your word will probably get taken with a grain of salt. Here's your "paragraph" to sum up the rules into one sentence.
WookieCookie - Don't be a jerk - http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...39662#31839662
Also, you really haven't given much substance to your suggestion to improve the Tribunal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel View Post
Edit: Ah, I read your last paragraph a little better. Where do you suppose this write-up on the reason comes from? The voters write it? Do you really think hundreds of people's negative opinions of you included with your ban would be useful, or just add insult to injury?
@Domitorius: You're totally ignoring the things that are being asked about your suggestion. How would this be implemented? Who's giving the reasons? Would you like the reasons why and still try to argue your case? Of all the suggestions I've heard, I like this idea as it wouldn't increase the time it'd take to judge 20 cases by a whole lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitorius View Post
Why should the minority suffer then? wouldnt it just be fair to have the system explain for all just to help people. Even a solution how to help the person, if you want to punish people do it but there is no reason to punish people if you do not have a way to help them.
This section of the forums is just for that reason. We as Justices vote to Pardon or Punish. We as Justices are on these forums to help those that need help to understand their punishments. Most people understand the reasons for their punishments and either change for the better or ignore it and continue on until they're permabanned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitorius View Post
May not be the place either however im gonna ask it here coz theres a few decent people replying.
When is it ok to afk? ive never done it but when the score gets to 50/25 and there is no way to win and there is no enjoyment in continuing but people always say "let finish this coz you get more ip". How is it fair for the people not having fun?
Never. Again, use diplomacy and tact to get the game to end faster if you must. Keep up the surrender vote if you need to. However, respect your teammates and keep fighting to win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitorius View Post
ok Leo you are the reason the system fails and im sorry to say so. Hobo is the only one who is reading this post as it should be and being open minded about it. You saying "Shiister don't even bother replying to Hoboslayer; he's just a troll. Just downvote and ignore him, he'll go away eventually." is as belittling as a comment in game that should get you banned.

Now the point im trying to get across is the system is flawed. What do you think the definition is for Tribunal? now personally i feel its a justice system to allow people to share their opinion on a matter and allow someone to come to an educated resolution. The system does not allow this. It is a one sided report, allowing comments to persuade an individual to see their point. The system is one sided.

Yes someone can read the chat, however as it is reported, the individual is already reading it in a negative manner, then to add a comment from an individual to further persuade them that this act is malicious or whatever, worsens their oppinion. Take for example "Get ****ed" how many times have you said that to your friend as a joke? personally it will be a lot. Does that mean im trying to be rude to him? how does someone know. You dont, and really the only person is the guy who said it, however you have reports from people taking it the wrong way. Now the judicator or whatever you call the tribunal people is reading it as an offensive statement.

How is this system not flawed?
Who here is saying the system is perfect? Even Lyte has said that it's not perfect and that it needs more iterations until it gets even close to being perfect. These things take time and careful testing of its backend features to implement a good balance of how Riot wants it run. I can't find the exact posts on it, but it's been said. Quite frankly, I see the Tribunal as a daily voting booth for the presidency. I vote for one party or the other. If I can't decide, I don't vote and let others handle it. Telling us that we're stupid and can't read won't get you much in the way of constructive discussion on improvements to the system. Not everyone allows a reporters comments to influence their decisions. I know I don't.

Yes, those who believe in the Tribunal will defend its effectiveness. Some more fervently than others. I believe in it and I believe it is effective for the most part. Keep in mind that not everyone is just like you. Not everyone will understand your "jokes and playfulness" towards your friend. Life would be boring if we were all alike and did all the same things.


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Domitorius

Junior Member

02-14-2013

Um not to be rude but once again you missed mt point Kantala. You have jumped right in and just said I'm wrong. If you wish for ideas how to implement them, then we can talk about that, but saying I am ignoring the questions is hardly fair. Ive answered questions on this post and I would personally appreciate if you talk to me with an open minded view and not one of "your wrong" attitude. If I have missed any questions simply ask me again.

I have not once asked ANYONE to review my case or unban me. So please stop referring to that because I am not talking about my case. I used it as an example, that is all.

Firstly yes, I believe the people voting should give a reason, why not? If it deters people from voting, GOOD. Is it not right to be fair? or rather have people donkey vote? Then to continue to say it would add insult to injury is contradicting yourself. You said yourself Kant, be diplomatic, do i believe a response like "your a bully and you swear" be a fair justification... NO, and for that reason I feel we need a reason why to ban people, because those are the people who should not be voting. Now what if you get "Dear Domitorius, We have reviewed your case and we feel you spoke too harshly to the enemy team. We understand that they provoked you but we suggest next time, do not talk to the enemy at all or say gg wp and walk away." now would that help someone more? YES. how could anyone argue with that? Ok i see how this may look like your mothering but the one thing I have learnt is to always give a reason why, you cannot expect someone in fault to understand their fault. 9 times out of 10 they will just claim to be the victim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantala View Post
"This section of the forums is just for that reason. We as Justices vote to Pardon or Punish. We as Justices are on these forums to help those that need help to understand their punishments. Most people understand the reasons for their punishments and either change for the better or ignore it and continue on until they're permabanned."
Then if this is the way for players to seek help, WHY is it not mentioned at all in the email or case review? It should be offered or a "if you wish to fight your case, please post on..." whatever forums. This isn't mentioned at all. The email reads as if you are punished and there's nothing you can do. Is that fair? And do not tell me, its common sense or people should know, cause people don't.

I do not want to dwell on the afk matter, that was a side note but the idea of a game is to have fun. Once someone is not enjoying the game, how can you deny them the right to walk away? the're needs to be something that gives people an advantage to surrender in the case of a huge loss. It will be always the same people, wishing to stay for extra ip, its the only reason i hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantala View Post
"Telling us that we're stupid and can't read won't get you much in the way of constructive discussion on improvements to the system. Not everyone allows a reporters comments to influence their decisions. I know I don't."
I never once said someone was stupid however the two Shister and leo both claimed hobo was a troll and belittled whatever he had to say. This strengthens my view that there are senior members who are not suited for the job. Taking away someones voice like that is not right. If you kantala cannot see that, then how can we have a discussion? Do not take what I am saying as you cannot read or im calling anyone stupid. That is another misunderstanding.


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Kunjax96

Member

02-14-2013

If the judges had to give a reason, couldn't they just say something really simple, like, "he swore, has been banned"?