Nasus's Laning Changes

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doomed2death

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Riot claims they want Nasus to have a better laning phase but...

The biggest buffs happened to his ultimate which is pretty useless for a large majority (~60 or 70%?) of the laning phase you don't have it.

The other buff is a massive mana buff on Siphoning Strike which is pretty nice... If he really had severe mana issues (which I don't see unless you're spamming W/E). Also, that only really becomes useful levels 5+ish...

He still has his face melted by Riven, Darius, Vladimir, Rumble, etc. He still has no efficient trading. He can still cast his Q very infrequently until he builds up CDR (but oh wait! Iceborn Gauntlet's CDR got nerfed so one of his primary sources of CDR is now GONE!). He still has no real way of pushing back more aggressive tops. He still takes a while to build up to become formidable. And he still has no real natural tanking skills beyond his ultimate's health boost.

I mean... What's really changed about his laning? Especially since the Siphoning Strike changes really don't effect his laning by much since the biggest changes to mana cost happen at later levels. His mid-game got buffed quite a bit, I won't deny that but I mean... Has his laning really changed significantly? And honestly, is he really any more viable than he was? (his ultimate now lets him stay further away from enemies with his E and attacks! But oh wait! IT requires him to be in melee range to take effect!)

I'm really lost to the direction of the changes. Am I alone? Can anyone justify these for me? Also, assuming I'm not completely stupid and missing something huge, what could be done for Nasus's laning?


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USMCTempest

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

He has one of the best late games in the game, that's why his early game isn't amazing. If you get a couple of early levels in e against insane pushers you can keep the wave at bay, but if they're pushing the wave to your turret, you should be getting 90% of the cs with q's shouldn't you? If you just run TP on Nasus and use the first TP to get back to your lane, I see no reason why you can't do modestly well against most top laners. If Nasus gets out of early game only 10-15 CS behind I think he did pretty well.


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doomed2death

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Well the point of the post was to point out that, while Riot claims they want Nasus to have a better laning phase, the changes don't really improve it that much.

Also, I do think he can do with a better laning phase since his laning phase is pretty vital to his overall gameplan (farm up his Q and wreck the enemies). And his Q's cooldown is so dismal on the first 3 levels, he can barely farm up all that much damage; it's pretty depressing to be honest. He's pretty precarious to balance (so is Veigar) but I'm of the opinion he's not anywhere near as viable as the other top laners; he's a situational pick at best. Which is pretty much the same category of my main, Veigar so I feel the pain but I also know how valuable he can be (just like I love Veigar).

That doesn't change the fact that, ultimately, the champion isn't exactly strong right now (mediocre at best) and we should work on fixing it. And if Riot wants him to have a better laning phase, maybe this isn't the direction they should take.


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GlyphTsen

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomed2death View Post

The other buff is a massive mana buff on Siphoning Strike which is pretty nice... If he really had severe mana issues (which I don't see unless you're spamming W/E). Also, that only really becomes useful levels 5+ish...

I mean... What's really changed about his laning? Especially since the Siphoning Strike changes really don't effect his laning by much since the biggest changes to mana cost happen at later levels.

Except now you CAN use W and E more often, and it's easier to keep that reserve for R when you need it. That actually is quite a good and significant change.

Also, for myself, I didn't have mana problems with Nasus... but that was mostly because I'd get a Chalice or G. Shroud along with the Sheen. Now I don't have to if I don't want to, or can delay them in favor of other items if I wish.


Mostly though:
This is the second buff to Nasus in a row. I think if they still aren't satisfied after these changes, they probably aren't going to stop just yet.


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asamu

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlyphTsen View Post
Except now you CAN use W and E more often, and it's easier to keep that reserve for R when you need it. That actually is quite a good and significant change.

Also, for myself, I didn't have mana problems with Nasus... but that was mostly because I'd get a Chalice or G. Shroud along with the Sheen. Now I don't have to if I don't want to, or can delay them in favor of other items if I wish.


Mostly though:
This is the second buff to Nasus in a row. I think if they still aren't satisfied after these changes, they probably aren't going to stop just yet.
Good points. Particularly the last.
I typically get a fast Philo for some mana regen and gold income to make up for falling slightly behind on farm.
Vs the more aggressive tops. If they push to your tower, they are doing you a favor. Nasus is great at farming under turret with his Q, and E, and his W, E (armor reduction), and Ult make diving him incredibly hard.


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doomed2death

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlyphTsen View Post
Except now you CAN use W and E more often, and it's easier to keep that reserve for R when you need it. That actually is quite a good and significant change.

Also, for myself, I didn't have mana problems with Nasus... but that was mostly because I'd get a Chalice or G. Shroud along with the Sheen. Now I don't have to if I don't want to, or can delay them in favor of other items if I wish.


Mostly though:
This is the second buff to Nasus in a row. I think if they still aren't satisfied after these changes, they probably aren't going to stop just yet.
I guess I see that point... It's just after lvl 8-ish, everyone starts roaming and stuff (if not before) so the "buffs to laning" aren't really all that great. Especially, like I said, since the mana difference is really only big at Q lvl 3+.

I never had mana issues because G Shroud and Sheen are GREAT items for Nasus for reasons far beyond the MP bonuses (G Shroud makes him tankier and gives him CDR which is his most important stat imo since he needs it for Q Stacks) and Sheen just doubles his early damage output so I always ended up getting those items. And they give MP. I don't really see the need for other items TBH. Maybe a Philosopher's Stone if I'm a bit behind or a neg cloak if I really need it but...


But your last point makes a lot of sense. I'm just wondering about the direction of the buffs for his "laning"


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The Lord Impaler

Senior Member

02-14-2013

The key here is being able to spam W & E without sacrificing Q farming. As you advanced from level 1 to level 5 in Siphon the sustained mana cost QUADRUPLED because cool-down was halved and cost doubled. At level 1 you were using 2.5 mana per second which grew to 10 mana per second if (2.5, 3.1, 5, 7, 10) if your mashing Q the instant it's cool-down finished (which you had better be if you expect to be the beast your meant to be).

Now that only grows to 5 mana per second (2.5, 2.8, 3.3, 4, 5) the difference of 5 mana per second or 25 mana per 5 seconds is huge, it's the equivalent of adding 8 Faerie Charms to Nasus, and is almost enough mana to cover the full cost of spamming level 5 Wither every single time it refreshes (total cost would be 7.2 mana per second), or covering half the cost of spamming lvl 5 Spirit Fire every time it's refreshed (10.8 mana per second). You will definitely notice this by level 3 Siphon Strike, which you usually have around level 5, and by level ~8 when you max Siphon strike the benefits will be big.

Imagine being able to constantly Wither your opponent in lane as a sustained denial of his CS, rather then just as an attack/escape mechanism. I like to give em an occasional smack with Siphon Strike too while Withered, this gradually forces them out of lane as you stay so topped off in health they can't risk engaging you and any harassment they try just falls off.

With this change Nasus should be able to dispense entirely with mana regen items while farming without CDR and with CDR and a small amount of mana regen he can farm at a frightening rate, using spirit-fire to blow through minion waves.

The CDR buff change to Spirit Visage balances the nerf to Glacial Shroud so not too bad. My build was usually to go for a quick Vamp Scepter for infinite no-potion sustain then Glacial for CDR and then Glacial fist for slows. Now I'm probably going to be going Spirit Visage before Glacial fist at least vs anyone who has magic damage.

I also might stop carrying Teleport, I found many of my uses of Teleport are for mana when laneing, that shouldn't be an issue now so


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

02-14-2013

20 mana cost all the time on Q is a pretty significant buff, he will actually have the mana to use his abilties rather than be forced to tank auto attacks to farm


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Hyfe

Senior Member

02-14-2013

It doesn't do anything for his first few levels, which is when he was the weakest. It will let him trade a bit better after a few levels in the lane though, because you can use wither more frequently without fearing you will go OOM after 1 use. To me it's the incentive I need to drop philo/chalice and just go for your first CDR items. Previously, if you went back to lane after you first recall without a philo, you could run OOM pretty quickly by just spamming Q on CD. Now you will be able to Q farm for longer and use wither as necessary. Personally, I just see it as an 800 gold saving since you hopefully won't have to invest in early mp5 anymore.


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Rhombus45

Member

02-14-2013

These new changes to Nasus will help him all round I feel. Granted it might not seem like a huge change but having a flat mana cost will help him stay in lane longer, use his mana for other skills besides just farming his Q. The changes to his R are great as well. less mana all the more making him less mana dependent. increasing the aoe for his R will also help keep him in fights longer by doing more damage and getting more life steal. These are some well needed buffs.


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