Patch 3.02: Responses and Questions for Nome and the Dominion community

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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Hey all, this is Tortferngatr, resident mid-elo Dominion and TT enthusiast. Looking at the patch, I've decided to go through and give feedback and questions about interesting changes within the patch specific to Dominion. Any Reds besides Nome visiting should feel free to comment, make them welcome and keep the discussion civil!

(...Well, besides Sauron, but he can't help having legions of rowdy orcs and Trundle players behind him. :P)

Bolded questions are questions I would really like Red input on.
Italics indicate questions the high elo community ought to look more closely at.

Before we start, here's a list of patch notes that aren't included due to having minimal relevance to Dominion (and I mean nigh-absolute irrelevance):
-Anivia easter egg
-Janna autoattack
-Yi bugfix
-Morgana bugfix
-Ziggs bugfix
-Ward-related QoL
-Shen Bot (hahahahahahahahahahahaha)
-Item shop changes
-Spirit of the Spectral Wraith changes
-Shurelya's Reverie (who in their right mind stacks these on the same champ?)
-Ohmwrecker
-Minimap Teleport versus Minimap Recall.
-Chat system changes
-Nami's jungle creep bugfix
-Camera changes
-Autoattack range display
-Muramana bugs on Karthus, Kog, and Zyra
-Rabadabadoodon's Deathcap buffs
-Leagues System

And discussions that I'm adding related to things that are NOT Dominion-related, but offer interesting discussions with regards to the "analogues" Dominion has to them:
-BoRK buffs (versus Kitae's Bloodrazor)
-Liandry's changes (versus Blackfire Torch and the CDR changes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post

Akali
These changes are to open up additional rune and mastery setups for Akali players. They’re intended to be a small change for those players who choose to stick with the setups they currently use.
  • Twin Disciplines
    • Discipline of Force
      • Now takes effect immediately instead of requiring 19.5 Ability Power
      • Base damage bonus reduced to 6% from 8%
    • Discipline of Might
      • Now takes effect immediately instead of requiring 9.5 Attack Damage
      • Base spell vamp bonus reduced to 6% from 8%
This seems like a REALLY nice QoL change for Akali to make her more accessible to most players.

While it isn't too big a change for high-level players, I'd like to see what the lower echelons of the Dominion community have to say about it--think we'll be seeing more kama flourished on the Crystal Scar?

Quote:
Jarvan IV
  • Martial Cadence
    • Fixed a bug where Martial Cadence was dealing more damage than intended to minions and monsters
Think this will affect his bot lane at all?

Quote:
Lulu
  • Glitterlance
    • When cast after Help, Pix!, Glitterlance no longer gains an increased area of effect size against the target of Help, Pix!
  • Whimsy
    • Whimsy no longer interrupts enemy movement abilities that are already in progress

Whew. I'm not sure how damaging this nerf is, but like the Skarner ult change did to Skarner, these changes seem like they will increase the possible responses players have to Lulu's kit. Think this will knock her down a tier, or will she stay decent?

Nami
These changes are aimed at improving Nami's early laning phase by giving her a movement speed advantage and enabling her to be play more aggressively.
  • Nami’s basic attack should now feel more responsive
  • Base movement speed increased to 340 from 335
Hmm. While Nami isn't exactly a high tier player anyway, it's still a nice little advantage in conjunction with her natural ability to boost movement speed. Will this make her a bit more slippery and give her a way to stand out over Lulu and Janna, or is it a pipe dream from a guy who likes playing decent-damage supports?

Quote:
Nasus
The changes to Siphoning Strike help alleviate some of Nasus’ weak laning phase, and the changes to Fury of the Sands improve his ability to close on targets in team fights.
  • Siphoning Strike
    • Fixed a bug where Siphoning Strike critical strikes were dealing more damage than intended
    • Mana cost reduced to 20 at all ranks from 20/25/30/35/40
  • Fury of the Sands
    • Now increases attack range by 50 and cast range by 100 while active
    • Mana cost reduced to 100 from 150
The main thing I'm sensing about this change is that if Nasus had mana issues bot, he doesn't have them anymore. I'm actually wondering if he could avoid building mana altogether on Dominion now. That being said, the crit bug got removed. Aaaaaaargh, that was awesome! Thoughts on how Nasus will do now?

Quote:
Nocturne
  • Fixed a bug where Nocturne wouldn’t automatically chase his target after using Paranoia

Renekton
  • Fixed a bug where Renekton's Slice and Dice wouldn't work on minions that he couldn't see
...Should I remove these, or can we actually get meaningful discussion from them?

Quote:
Riven
These changes should offer Riven players new rune and item choices beyond simply stacking attack damage. In addition, they should slightly reduce her early lane snowballing, but increase her ability to recover if she falls behind.
  • Runic Blade
    • Adjusted damage to 15-45% of her total Attack Damage (based on champion level) from 5-15 (+0.5 bonus attack damage)
  • Broken Wings
    • Fixed a bug that was causing Broken Wings to improperly apply its splash damage if Valor was cast too recently

Sivir
  • Ricochet
    • Fixed a bug where the cooldown on earlier ranks was longer than intended

Vi
  • Assault and Battery
    • Fixed a bug where the crowd control component of Assault and Battery was ignoring spell shields.

Items
We've adjusted cooldown reduction on several items. These changes should differentiate items with strong synergy from those that simply grant cooldown reduction as a secondary stat.

  • Athene's Unholy Grail
    • Cooldown reduction increased to 20% from 15%

  • Glacial Shroud
    • Combine cost reduced to 230 gold from 380 (total cost reduced to 1350 from 1500)
    • Armor increased to 45 from 40
    • Cooldown Reduction reduced to 10% from 15%

  • Spirit Visage
    • Combine cost increased to 630 gold from 540 (total cost unchanged)
    • Cooldown reduction increased to 20% from 15%

  • Deathfire Grasp
    • Combine cost reduced to 680 gold from 880 (total cost reduced to 3100 from 3300)
    • Cooldown reduction reduced to 10% from 15%

  • Zeke's Herald
    • Combine cost increased to 900 gold from 800 gold (total cost increased to 2550 gold from 2450)
    • Cooldown reduction increased to 20% from 15%

  • Iceborn Gauntlet
    While we’re generally happy with the kiting potential Iceborne Gauntlet offers ranged champions, it provided a little too much area control in certain cases. This change increases the item’s effect for melee champions but reduces it for ranged.
    • Total cost reduced to 3250 gold from 3400
    • Cooldown reduction reduced to 10% from 15%
    • Fixed a bug where the slow field was lasting longer than intended
    • Fixed a bug where the slow was not being applied immediately
    • Slow field radius for ranged champions reduced to 210 from 275
    • Slow field radius for melee champions increased to 285 from 275

  • Chalice of Harmony
    This change is only intended to make purchasing multiple Faerie Charms an option for mages and supports at the start of the game. For this reason, we didn’t change the total cost or stats granted by Chalice of Harmony.
    • Recipe Changed: Faerie Charm + Faerie Charm + Null-Magic Mantle + 120 gold = 880 gold

  • Frozen Heart
    • Combine cost increased to 550 gold from 400 (total cost unchanged)
    • Armor increased to 95 from 90

  • Negatron Cloak
    • Cost reduced to 720 gold from 810
    • Magic resist reduced to 40 from 45

  • Quicksilver Sash
    • Combine cost reduced to 830 gold from 850 (total cost reduced 1550 gold from 1660)

  • Avarice Blade
    • Gold per 10 seconds increased to 3 from 2
To be added. Still, lots of interesting changes--any thoughts?

Quote:
  • Eleisa's Miracle
    • Now reduces the cooldown of Heal, Clairvoyance and Clarity by 25% instead of reducing the cooldown on Heal, Clairvoyance and Revive by 20%
Is anyone going to miss the (surprisingly underwhelming) Revive-cooldown passive? What about the Heal and Clairvoyance effects--does that make it possibly worth buying on a Clairvoyance user on Dominion?

Quote:
  • Executioner's Calling
    • Critical strike chance increased to 20% from 15%
Has any item fallen harder from grace than Executioner's Calling?
  • Liandry's Torment
    The original set of restrictions on Liandry’s Torment made it a lot more niche and complex than we originally intended. These changes help clarify the item’s role as well as make its unique playstyle more accessible for additional casters.
    • Ability power reduced to 50 from 60
    • Damage per second increased to 2% from 1.66%
    • Damage-over-time and multi-target spells no longer have reduced effect
    • Fixed damage effect not being properly reapplied on targets that already have it
  • Blade of the Ruined King
    • Attack damage increased to 45 from 40
    • Current health damage increased to 5% from 4%
These are interesting items, which lead me to some points about the items' Dominion counterparts Blackfire Torch and Kitae's Bloodrazor.

First off, Blackfire Torch.

I've noticed that as an item, BFT feels much more awkward on sustained-damage mages than on poke mages, unlike Liandry's.

For one: BFT's charge system really feels weaker for continuous damage output than Liandry's Torment. Liandry's offers almost better average dps at half the cost (and much less annoyance with regards to stepping on Teemo shrooms at low health.)

Additionally, with all the CDR changes, is the itemization gap that BFT filled still relevant? Its gameplay niche seems like one Liandry's could easily fill--do you guys agree with that? Would you think it a good idea for BFT be removed and replaced by Liandry's? Could BFT's passive be replaced by Liandry's, but maintain its CDR and higher AP?

Secondly, Kitae's Bloodrazor.

This is an item I really question the continued existence of in the game. It's a worse version of Season 2 Madred's Bloodrazor.

Quote:
  • Wit's End
    • Magic resist increased to 25 from 20
Any comments?

Quote:
Matchmaking
  • We adjusted the matchmaking system last patch so it would account for both matchmaking rating and your total of wins in the current queue when creating matches.
    • We made some adjustments this patch to reduce average queue times.
I'd like to see how the entire community's experiences change with this patch--once you all have played with it a while, should Dominion keep it or pitch it?

[quote=Miscellaneous]
  • Knockups now function more consistently and should fail less frequently when close to walls
  • Muting a player will no longer mute his map pings; map pings have been throttled to prevent spam
  • Boots of Mobility will now show a cooldown for their passive effect
  • Dragon and Baron kill callouts should now display assists
[/QUOTE

Any final comments?

See you next patch! (and whenever I get around to updating and commenting on the changes I didn't have time to make.)


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lbgsloan

Senior Member

02-13-2013

I'm bored, so I'll add a few comments.

Akali - This is great, as Akali currently required her own mastery page (not a big deal) and rune page (this was a pain). It's nice they finally realized that Akali being the only champion in the game that needs her own rune page didn't make any real sense. I may actually use her from time to time again.

Nami - That's not going to do anything. She needs some major changes to her passive and E in particular. I mean take Nami's E and compare it to Janna or Lulu's E. Doesn't even come close to being at par. The 3 attack limitation in particular is stupid; if it doesn't give any defensive bonus it should at least be the better damage buff. It isn't. Also her passive is barely noticable. Needs more speed or a longer duration.

Nasus - Won't change him much on Dominion. It's Nasus' W and E that eat his mana supply, and frankly the reasons you'd ever want to play him over any other bruiser. The ult buffs will help a little, but generally speaking you ulted with Nasus when you were in the other guys face already. Though I guess it helps him pick off runners with his E better. Honestly Riot really just needs to remove the 'power-up Q' mechanic and just make Q useful all the time. I don't care if they copy-paste Wukong's Q, he frankly needs something like that.

CDR changes - I am not a fan of the changes, but then I mainly play tanks and support mages. This actually makes it harder to hit exactly 40% (or 39% in most cases) on many champions now that there is only one 15% CDR item in the game. IG definitely needed the ranged nerf, but I wish they would have left the CDR on GS/IG alone. I don't know, I guess I'll have to give up my boot slot for CDR boots more often now. 9/0/21 masteries just isn't an option for...well anyone not named Ryze or Singed really.

Eleisa's Miracle - It's great for ARAM now, and that's quite about it.

Executioner's Calling - Not even close to good enough. Replacing the derpy on-hit effect with the old active again would be a start. Actually, if they insist on leaving it AD/crit why not have it be part of IE? Would give it an upgrade path, and would make IE feel less weak while putting it together.

Wit's End - Meh, might start buying it on some champions again.


Grand Summary of changes for Dominion - Kassadin is unaffected by all these changes.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Based on what I've seen, it seems like Akali is gaining popularity on SR. I expect her to be nerfed in a few patches, perhaps even the patch after this one. I doubt this change will make her strong on Dominion, though.

Zeke's Herald might be a really good options on supports, now. It might also be a decent option for some tanky bruisers, such as Jarvan IV.

The Spirit Visage buff might make Yorick even stronger. I don't like that.

Iceborn Gauntlet giving 10% CDR makes it a lot less appealing now, since you could get 20% CDR for a similiar cost if you got Frozen Heart instead. I suspect it might still be a good option if you want the slow or the Sheen proc, or if you don't need 20% CDR.


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Volandum

Senior Member

02-13-2013

The Iceborne nerf was nowhere near as punishing as I expected. The CDR on BFT is a key part of the item, I would certainly not rather have Liandry's in that slot.

The Athene's change might be the final nail in the coffin of Morellonomicon.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volandum View Post
The Iceborne nerf was nowhere near as punishing as I expected. The CDR on BFT is a key part of the item, I would certainly not rather have Liandry's in that slot.

The Athene's change might be the final nail in the coffin of Morellonomicon.
Outside of ARAM, where I still buy it.

Especially on Brand. Dat continuous Grievous Wounds.


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Phourc

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbgsloan View Post
CDR changes - I am not a fan of the changes, but then I mainly play tanks and support mages. This actually makes it harder to hit exactly 40% (or 39% in most cases) on many champions now that there is only one 15% CDR item in the game. IG definitely needed the ranged nerf, but I wish they would have left the CDR on GS/IG alone. I don't know, I guess I'll have to give up my boot slot for CDR boots more often now. 9/0/21 masteries just isn't an option for...well anyone not named Ryze or Singed really.
Yeah I don't like the boots now - they removed all 15% cdr items so now the boots match up with ... exactly nothing!


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Koravel

Senior Member

02-13-2013

There are no changes made to Kassadin. Nothing.

I mean, really?


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phyerbert

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel34 View Post
There are no changes made to Kassadin. Nothing.

I mean, really?
i would be happy with even a quick blurb "we are aware of the Kassadin issue in dominion and we haven't worked out a solution yet." I mean they took a ton of time to work out how stealth could work for eve and twitch and I was happy to wait as long as they were letting us know they were trying.


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Veni13

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phyerbert View Post
i would be happy with even a quick blurb "we are aware of the Kassadin issue in dominion and we haven't worked out a solution yet." I mean they took a ton of time to work out how stealth could work for eve and twitch and I was happy to wait as long as they were letting us know they were trying.
Not to be sounding bitter or nothing...but are you new to the Dominion forums?


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FDru

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
The main thing I'm sensing about this change is that if Nasus had mana issues bot, he doesn't have them anymore. I'm actually wondering if he could avoid building mana altogether on Dominion now. That being said, the crit bug got removed. Aaaaaaargh, that was awesome! Thoughts on how Nasus will do now?
Nasus is still going to have mana issues if he doesn't build any. The cooldown of SS is long at low levels, which made most of his mana loss come from Spirit Fire and Wither. It's just too easy to force Nasus to blow his spells and waste mana...

The increased spell range is basically meaningless. His spells have massive range already, and if the enemy is far enough away for that to matter then they aren't taking ult damage, so he's not necessarily better off (maybe he could catch up if they don't have tenacity, but anyone not building tenacity vs Nasus is a tard).

The crit thing is annoying, but I'm not sure how long that "bug" has been in effect. I have a feeling it was since forever which would make this an overall nerf for Nasus. The nice thing is the increased autoattack range while ulting, which will make it easier to micro around the enemy while getting every SS in.


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