Anyone else a bit dissapointed with Quinn's design?

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Baín

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Rather disappointed in some of the folks in this thread. You need to back off and accept that there will be things in life you do not personally like, but others will. I, for one, am very happy to see Quinn's artwork and eagerly await her release.


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CrimsonBlader24

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Some quick context:

Quinn used to be a guy, then I turned her into a woman. That woman is a ranger, she's prepared for a fight, she's wearing thicker armor but not plate aside from key places where she would have to interact with an enemy's face.

Quinn was not designed to be in a skin-tight outfit. That was tried, and look, again, like a woman with a cape, in a skin tight outfit, which had been worked to death by Zyra, Syndra, Elise, and Diana. She does not care about looking feminine, she cares about utility. Baggy fatigues which have hardened pockets, knee pads to dig into the ground to take a shot, no exposed flesh to take a graze.

A functional Demacian helmet which adds sleekness is a design choice. It's Valkyrie, it's a motif, and it's a visual landmark. She has a gauntlet reminiscent of a falconer's glove which is armored because Valor has armor on his talons, to again, interact with an enemy's face. He can do damage to even thick leather.

Her hood is collapsed, she has essentially a themed parka with a bird motif, Functional but themed.

She has what equates to kevlar, thickened material able to resist a blade. She has Demacian signifiers all over her, and bird motifs worked in. She is functional but fantasy.

Regarding femininity, I was called out long ago when Sejuani released for making the reasoning that Sejuani might wear less clothing so that "you can tell she's female." That is an invalid argument and a sad excuse to design a particular way. A ranger, an elite, doesn't care whether you can tell they are a female or a male. They are interested in getting the job done, and having the gear to do so. We gave Quinn that gear and did not embrace the traditional route of the tight-clothed standard fantasy ranger. She's a new ranger for a new time. She hits the Demacian notes but plays off of them. That is the rational behind similar armor themes to Garen and Jarvan. That's how we establish she's in the military proper, but not standard in uniform.

For reference, take a look ad Deunan Knute from Appleseed. She has no boob or breastplates. She is completely covered with a half-helm. She has short hair. She is a bit more masculine, that's the goal. She is not a waif, but she is agile. She has small breasts, a tighter frame, but is fairly androgynous. That's what we wanted to portray, and I feel we hit that.

Honestly, I feel I owe no excuses. You know my history, you know my goals. I design the women in armor. I do not design the over-sexualized, the seductress, or the siren. Different artists gravitate towards different styles and themes. When this champion came along, I opted to work on it because I felt I could bring a different take. Initially, she did start out as a traditional fantasy ranger, and actually was melee at the time. However, that was not the route we wanted to take. That was standard, it was conventional, and it was boring. I drove away from it and made something rugged in the new direction we're trying to take our style. Fantasy, but not traditional fantasy.

This is my take. If you don't like it that's perfectly fine. I, like all artists, design with particular design and form language as my signature. You might have noticed Zyra, Syndra and Elise were designed by the same artist. Sexy bodies, integrated clothing/biology, dark females. Same with artist for Nautilus, Ziggs and Lulu. Friendly shapes, opposing colors, offbeat characters. Just like game designers have similar flavor to their champions across the board artists have similar common expressions.

If you want a traditional archer, with a traditional fantasy get-up, with a traditional build, and a traditional design where female form expression trumps practically fighting the fight, I am not your guy, and I'm glad to admit that. That's my strength, that why I work on what I work on.

I do not abide by the established or the expected, neither does Riot on the whole. It is not our job to abide, it's our job to challenge the convention and question traditional execution.

Thanks for the feedback. Thanks for understanding where we're coming from. This isn't just me. This is part of something larger. Pendulums will swing, you'll get your stripped down heroes. Quinn is not one of them and we're proud of that.
You sir, just earned some respect!


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Prkl8r

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Most champs in this game associate themselves with a trope. This is good, because every single time I get a friend into this game it's because they found an interest with a certain trope (omgah a mech?! Omgah a speardude?! omgah boobs!). More champs that fill more tropes is a good idea if you ask me, and as a result, more champs that fill same tropes dilute the trope...which leads to a lack of diversity...which is more boring.

Plus...isn't "Ashe" already the "ranger" character of this game? Hell she even has a "hawkshot" ability.
You can say "but she aint no Demacian Ranger"...but as the average Leaguer I dont really give a **** what fantasy-nationality they hail to...I just care about the coolness of the character trope. More characters in the same trope dilute the trope = less unique = less interesting.
So your saying that she would have been better if they had dropped the lore of being a ranger, and instead just made her an army markswoman or something along those lines? I could see that if that is what your talking about, but actual design wise, I see nothing to Christianize.


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Seabass

Senior Member

02-13-2013

lol its Swayne... lol get it .. swain and vayne.. lol .. lol ..lo


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban View Post
Rather disappointed in some of the folks in this thread. You need to back off and accept that there will be things in life you do not personally like, but others will. I, for one, am very happy to see Quinn's artwork and eagerly await her release.
I think it's more disappointment than outright hate. Quinn definitely wasn't what I was expecting, and I'm certainly disappointed. That being said, I'm going to give this a chance to suprise me.

And as I mentioned earlier, I'm sure she will sound female, and that's gonna go a long way towards making this easier to stomach.

I expect to see Quinn grow on me in coming weeks.


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BeastBox

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
"If you don't like it that's perfectly fine."

This line...is very unprofessional. It's saying, "back off, I have my own style."
Like every artist that ever existed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
The problem with Quinn's design however, is that it is not iconic. This has nothing to do with liking your style or not, its just lackluster designing ... Each champion in League of Legends should convey a full character trope.
.... wut. O_O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
Darius for instance, great character design (gameplay design is debated), he's clearly your bad-ass no-nonsense-dunkmaster type of guy. He fully conveys this, and there is VERY little overlap between his trope and that of another champion. Lulu is your cute/small mischievous witch-type-with-fairy. When you think of an archetype, you should have no confusion directly linking a character to it.
I don't see how Quinn's "trope" is any different from Ashe's. She seems to me a strong militant female type with a tragedy in her past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
So don't say "if you don't like it that's perfectly fine."
It should very much concern you if there is talk from the community of not liking it.
Does the community actually not like it, or is there just a vocal minority? Near as I can tell, reaction to Quinn's design has been pretty popular.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
Why are you so offended by females with a lack of femininity?
Personally, I find Quinn more feminine and attractive. There's something to be said for subtlety, something most females in this game lack in any degree.


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Prkl8r

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by headhunter228 View Post
Much as I hate to say this, I noticed something that I feel should be pointed out.

Say you're designing a new badass female warrior. If you explicitly set out to make this female warrior androgynous, doesn't that defeat the purpose of designing a badass female warrior? I liked Leona as much as I did because she's clearly identified as female. Her armor design, her hair, facial features, and even her name spell her out as female, but despite this, she was heavily armored, carries a sword and board, and generally kicks so much ass her boots smell permanently of farts.

Basically what I'm asking is this: what's the point to making a female as androgynous as possible? Is it just for the sake of trying something different, or is there another reason I'm missing completely?
I think the point is that women don't have to be sexy to exist in a game. That is what I take away from what they are trying to do anyway.


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prkl8r View Post
I think the point is that women don't have to be sexy to exist in a game. That is what I take away from what they are trying to do anyway.
I believe they've already made this point. See: Kayle, Leona, the Ironscale Shyvana skin, Steel Legion Lux. I doubt it's to make the point that females don't need to be sexy to be in this game.

Perhaps not "sexy", per se, but maybe that female characters don't have to be identified as female.


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Chilly5

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastBox View Post
Like every artist that ever existed.

.... wut. O_O

I don't see how Quinn's "trope" is any different from Ashe's. She seems to me a strong militant female type with a tragedy in her past.

Does the community actually not like it, or is there just a vocal minority? Near as I can tell, reaction to Quinn's design has been pretty popular.

Personally, I find Quinn more feminine. There's something to be said for subtlety, something most females in this game lack in any degree.
Okay so...

Yes, I absolutely agree. I too do not see how Quinn's "trope" is any different from Ashe's.
They are both ranger-with birdthing types.

I absolutely agree. In fact, that is everything about what my post was saying.
Quinn's character design is lackluster because it overlaps with far too many other characters already in the game (such as Leona, Swain, Vayne, and Ashe).
As a result, she is diluting the unique-ness pool of all of these champions...and in the end...this is not a good thing since it leads to more blandness in the selection pool.

I'm saying that this is something that should be avoided.

Whether or not the majority or minority has a problem. In the position that Ironstylus is in, he should try to take it all into account.
If Riot wants to be community-minded...there should not so much be a mentality of "that's just my style so get over it."


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Loganos

Senior Member

02-13-2013

I am actually really excited about Quinn's design and I do not really get why people would consider otherwise. However, and this might be more of a question for RiotRunaan, something is troubling me in the creative design.

I feel that her story gives an emphasis too important to nature, while her art suggest a more urban environnement. Is she wearing her borther's plate? I don't remember seeing something like this, but it would be the only way to reconcile both her art and her lore.

A wild soul shielded in an inherited duty?

That aside, short hair, adc and full plate... I'm already in love.