Is Muramana really any good on syndra?

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BesideYouInTime

Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draaaaaaavén View Post
I'd assume that Karthus's skittles are multi-target, regardless if they hit one or more things.
Most likely due to Muramana draining bonus mana at the same time as you cast the spell and Karthus' Q doesn't know beforehand how many targets it will hit.


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Doct0r Phil

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Senior Member

02-13-2013

Adding 700+ damage to an ultimate for an item that costs barely over 2k gold is worth it to me. You can utilize the mana, the bonus AD can't hurt. You just don't fully build the item until you have max stacks.

700 gold for the tear is nothing if you think about it. All you need after that is a measly 1400 gold (less than a NLR) to complete the item.

Combine that item with

RoAx2
Void
Hat
Sorc Boots

You have yourself a very strong foundation. You can do 1600+ damage with your ultimate. That can blow up tanks. Don't forget that the bonus damage is MAGIC damage (so mpen works with it).

This is not something to shoo away. It works really well.


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SniperSK1

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02-13-2013

Things to consider: This is ignoring the DFG % health damage as it really makes the math more complex since I would need to re-do the calculations of different health groups. This assumes DFG is used before most of your damage is done. A lot of the time the combo is Q, E, DFG, W, Q, and R in which the Q and E don’t get increased.In these examples I applied the duration to the max damage output on both builds to be fair. This assumes 30 AP from runes, ignoring resistances, and ignoring the % health damage from DFG as it would require me to set up more analysis based on varying health value.

Syndra base mana at lv 18 = 1150
Syndra base mana regen at lv 18 = 18.4 per 5

Q (80 mana) damage = 265(.69) at rank 5
W (100 mana) damage = 240(.7)
E (50 mana) damage = 250(.4)
R (100 mana) damage = 180(.2) per sphere.

Build 1 is DFG, Death Cap and Muramana + Blasting wand. (Wand is here for roughly the same cost as build 2)

Mana = 1150 base + 1000 Muramana = 2150 mana
Mana regen = 18.4 + 7 = 25.4 per 5 / 5 sec = 5 regen per second
AP = (120 DFG + 120 Deathcap + 40 blasting wand + 30 runes) * 1.25 Deathcap passive = 387.5 AP

4 ball combo. This assumes DFG active, Q, E, W, ult. This is over the 4 second DFG active.

Mana = 2150 – 80(Q) – 50(E) – 100(W) – 100(R) = 1740 mana + (5 mana regen per second * 4 second period) = 1760 mana.

Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5)) + W (240 + (.7 * 387.5)) + E (250 + (.4 * 387.5)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 387.5))*4) + (4 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1760 current mana). All of this is then increased by 20% due to DFG active.

Total Damage = 2901.0 * 1.2 = 3481.2

Damage from only ult and DFG active = ((180+ (.2 * 387.5)) * 4) + (4 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1760 current mana) = 1452.4 * 1.2 DFG active = 1742.88


5 ball combo. This assumes DFG active, Q, E, W, Q, ult. The first Q will not be increased by DFG.
Mana = 2150 – 80(Q) - 80(Q) – 50(E) – 100(W) – 80(Q) – 100(R) = 1660 mana + (5 mana regen per second * 6 second period) = 1690 mana.

Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5)) + Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5) + W (240 + (.7 * 387.5)) + E (250 + (.4 * 387.5)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 387.5))*5) + (5 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1690 current mana). All of this is increased by 20% due to DFG active.

Total Damage = (3775.5 * 1.2) = 4530.6
Damage from only ult and DFG active = ((180+ (.2 * 387.5)) * 5) + (5 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1690 current mana) = 1794.5 * 1.2 DFG active = 2153.4 Magic Damage


6 ball combo. This assumes Q, DFG active Q, W, E, Q, ult. The first two Q’s will not be increased by DFG.
Mana = 2150 – 80(Q) - 80(Q) – 80(Q) – 50(E) – 100(W) – 80(Q) – 100(R) = 1580 mana + (5 mana regen per second * 8 second period) = 1615 mana.

Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5)) + W (240 + (.7 * 387.5)) + E (250 + (.4 * 387.5)) + Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 387.5))*6) + (6 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1615 current mana). All of this except the first Q is increased by 20% due to DFG active.

Total Damage = (4107.4 * 1.2) + Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5)) = 5461.3

Damage from only ult and DFG active = ((180+ (.2 * 387.5)) * 6) + (6 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1615 current mana) = 2126.4 * 1.2 DFG active = 2551.7 Magic Damage



5 ball combo at half mana (1075). This assumes DFG active, Q, E, W, Q, ult. The first Q will not be increased by DFG.

Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5)) + Q (265 + (.69 * 387.5) + W (240 + (.7 * 387.5)) + E (250 + (.4 * 387.5)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 387.5))*5) + (5 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1075 current mana). All of this is increased by 20% due to DFG active.

Total Damage = (3591 * 1.2) = 4309.2
Damage from only ult and DFG active = ((180+ (.2 * 387.5)) * 5) + (5 single target ult orbs * .06 of current mana * 1075 current mana) = 1610 * 1.2 DFG active = 1932 Magic Damage




Build 2 is DFG, Death Cap and Seraphs.

AP = (120 DFG + 120 Deathcap + 60 Seraphs + 30 runes + (.03 of max mana * 2150 max mana)) * 1.25 Deathcap passive = 493.125 AP

4 ball combo. This assumes DFG active, Q, E, W, ult. This is over the 4 second DFG active.
Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 493.1)) + W (240 + (.7 * 493.1)) + E (250 + (.4 * 493.1)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 493.1))*4). All of this is then increased by 20% due to DFG active.

Damage = 2752.1 * 1.2 DFG = 3302.6 Magic Damage

5 ball combo. This assumes DFG active, Q, E, W, Q, ult. This is over the 4 second DFG active.
Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 493.1)) + W (240 + (.7 * 493.1)) + E (250 + (.4 * 493.1)) + Q (265 + (.69 * 493.1)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 493.1))*5). All of this is then increased by 20% due to DFG active.

Damage = (3636 * 1.2) = 4363.2 Magic Damage


6 ball combo. This assumes Q, DFG active, Q, E, W, Q, ult. This is over the 4 second DFG active.
Damage = Q (265 + (.69 * 493.1)) + W (240 + (.7 * 493.1)) + E (250 + (.4 * 493.1)) + Q (265 + (.69 * 493.1)) + R ((180 + (.2 * 493.1))*6). All of this except the first Q is then increased by 20% due to DFG active.


Damage = (3914.6 * 1.2) + (265 + (.69 * 493.1)) = 5302.8 Magic Damage



Build 1(Manamune) : 4 ball total combo magic damage = 3481.2
Build 2(Seraphs) : 4 ball total combo magic damage = 3302.6

Build 1(Manamune) : 5 ball total combo magic damage = 4530.6
Build 2(Seraphs) : 5 ball total combo magic damage = 4363.2

Build 1(Manamune) : 6 ball total combo magic damage = 5461.3
Build 2(Seraphs) : 6 ball total combo magic damage = 5302.8

TL;DR: Building Seraphs will give you almost the exact same combo damage as the Manamune build which is built purely around the strong ultimate. But you also have and extra 105.6 AP on which her Q (4 second cooldown, no CDR) and W (8 second cooldown, no CDR) scale ~ 70%. With the 15% CDR (soon to be 10%) from DFG, blue buff, and some mastery points you could have 39% CDR. With Q now on a 2.4 second cooldown and W now on a 4.9 second cooldown it is way more beneficial to have the extra AP to spam with. Finally there is the Seraph shield active which converts 25% of your current mana into a health shield. I think that is completely worth it as you only are losing negligible amounts of damage on a full combo.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattayaBrian View Post
I don't believe this is true, and, if it is, it's a bug.
It isn't true.

Muramana Syndra is good for laughs/bad ARAM teamcomps, though. Especially with DFG.

Burst ALL the health!


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phatcat09

Senior Member

02-13-2013

WTF I make a thread about Murmana on Syndra and it gets downvoted and locked, but whttayabrian reaffirms what I said seriously these forums....god damnt. -.-


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phatcat09

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSK1 View Post
Things to consider: This is ignoring the DFG % health damage as it really makes the math more complex since I would need to re-do the calculations of different heaes I

The 15% health could be the difference of successfully bursting someone to Zero vs bursting them to 15% allowing them to counter gank/aa heal on you.

That should be easily measurable.


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SniperSK1

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02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatcat09 View Post
The 15% health could be the difference of successfully bursting someone to Zero vs bursting them to 15% allowing them to counter gank/aa heal on you.

That should be easily measurable.
The 15% health active doesn't actually matter in this math since I used the 20% increase in the same spot in the combo for both builds. I even open with DFG's active for the 4 and 5 ball. The combo will still do the same amount of damage regardless of build and the % health will only add on to that equally.