how to fix rengar

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Ezlang

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Junior Member

02-15-2013

If only fixing Rengar was that easy.

I think the armor adjustment might be ok. It should improve his jungle a good bit but his laning only marginally.

Battle Roar is an interesting ability since it already has so many parts. It does AoE damage for no mana, gives chain vest/negetron defenses at max rank, and heals him. I don't know what Rengars are doing now, but back in Season 2 it was actually pretty common to max W first, since it gave harass, tankiness, sustain, and push all in one skill. It let Rengar beat "counters" like Jax. I don't think the extra damage to minions (jungle mobs is maybe ok) is a good idea, since Rengar can already be a manaless pushing machine. I also don't like the armor pen since his W does enough things already. It doesn't need more parts.

If Riot really wants to work on Rengar's late game instead of recapturing some of his early game, then sure, adjust his Q for the late game. I'm not sure how effective it would be though to marginally improve the late game of a non-late game champion.

Rengar never had instant stealth on his ult. He was fine before. He doesn't need it now.

I don't think his leap range is really the problem. I don't know what improving that will actually do to help him.


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KillMoreThenH1N1

Junior Member

02-16-2013

i liked and support your idead, i have a suggestion too:

Q (savagery) Using 100% of the ad in the first evolution of skill, 110% in the 2nd,120% in the 3rd,125% in the 4, 130 or 135% in the last. (I'm not well defined about the last evolution).


W (roar of battle) before, I thought it needed the buff in damage, but changed my mind, I'd rather focus on the damage with Q, because if W receive a buff in damage, people will improve only it, they will start with sunfire and will be the only heal, heal, heal, someone told me about it and I ended up agreeding that a champ wich is only on heal is annoying, that's why focus the damage on Q, but i still guess that W should deal 50% more damage to neutral monsters and minions, to improve his jungle.


E (bola strike) I see no need for changes.

R (thrill of the hunt) could go to reducing the time rengar become invisible as rengar skill improves, so that the improvement in the third evolution he suffers only a delay of 2 seconds. Where: 3 sec in the 1st, 2.5 sec in the 2nd, and 2 sec in the 3rd evolution.

opinions are welcome ^ ^

sorry about my english, is not my mother language

graciously


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezlang View Post
If only fixing Rengar was that easy.

I think the armor adjustment might be ok. It should improve his jungle a good bit but his laning only marginally.

Battle Roar is an interesting ability since it already has so many parts. It does AoE damage for no mana, gives chain vest/negetron defenses at max rank, and heals him. I don't know what Rengars are doing now, but back in Season 2 it was actually pretty common to max W first, since it gave harass, tankiness, sustain, and push all in one skill. It let Rengar beat "counters" like Jax. I don't think the extra damage to minions (jungle mobs is maybe ok) is a good idea, since Rengar can already be a manaless pushing machine. I also don't like the armor pen since his W does enough things already. It doesn't need more parts.

If Riot really wants to work on Rengar's late game instead of recapturing some of his early game, then sure, adjust his Q for the late game. I'm not sure how effective it would be though to marginally improve the late game of a non-late game champion.

Rengar never had instant stealth on his ult. He was fine before. He doesn't need it now.

I don't think his leap range is really the problem. I don't know what improving that will actually do to help him.
actually rengars ult used to be instant stealth for about 3 patches after he was out, then they nerfed it to delayed


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillMoreThenH1N1 View Post
i liked and support your idead, i have a suggestion too:

Q (savagery) Using 100% of the ad in the first evolution of skill, 110% in the 2nd,120% in the 3rd,125% in the 4, 130 or 135% in the last. (I'm not well defined about the last evolution).


W (roar of battle) before, I thought it needed the buff in damage, but changed my mind, I'd rather focus on the damage with Q, because if W receive a buff in damage, people will improve only it, they will start with sunfire and will be the only heal, heal, heal, someone told me about it and I ended up agreeding that a champ wich is only on heal is annoying, that's why focus the damage on Q, but i still guess that W should deal 50% more damage to neutral monsters and minions, to improve his jungle.


E (bola strike) I see no need for changes.

R (thrill of the hunt) could go to reducing the time rengar become invisible as rengar skill improves, so that the improvement in the third evolution he suffers only a delay of 2 seconds. Where: 3 sec in the 1st, 2.5 sec in the 2nd, and 2 sec in the 3rd evolution.

opinions are welcome ^ ^

sorry about my english, is not my mother language

graciously
the problem with the delay is it effectively makes him unable to do anything during the combat delay, and it makes his ult feel very similar to twitches Q, ult should not feel like another champions lvl 1 ability, with the delay being removed at max rank (or reduced to something near unnoticeable like .5 seconds with no pushback) his ult will actually feel powerful, and be useful in the midst of a fight again, because in order to get his ult off, he has to stop all damage in a fight to do so, and thats not fun at all and counterproductive of what an ult should provide a champion (using it should make you feel stronger, not weakened) it would be like making teemos shrooms able to hurt himself and his allies and detonate the moment he places it, effectivly nuking himself eveyr time he wanted to use one, except with rengar its not a taking damage issue, its a i cant attakc or my ult is gone issue

but the main point is somethign needs to be done about the delay for later game rengar, because it IS balanced early game, but makes it feel very hindering just to use it later on when team fights are more rampent


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Kan3Madn3ss

Junior Member

02-16-2013

You really want to fix rengar.......return his Q back to its old ability.....leave everything else the same except his ult has less delay/less time on cooldown............reason for this ......rengars Q is his only true dmg nuke....everything else is utility........Rengar is meant to dive in unload Q and his emp. Q and then try and escape......reason he was so op before was cuz he could heal for 500 hp right after popping his ult to escape and then be able to dive back in to get one mre Q off.........delay on ult fixes that problem and so does removing his % heal and making it flat....his Q is the only thing wrong right now....


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KillMoreThenH1N1

Junior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kan3Madn3ss View Post
You really want to fix rengar.......return his Q back to its old ability.....leave everything else the same except his ult has less delay/less time on cooldown............reason for this ......rengars Q is his only true dmg nuke....everything else is utility........Rengar is meant to dive in unload Q and his emp. Q and then try and escape......reason he was so op before was cuz he could heal for 500 hp right after popping his ult to escape and then be able to dive back in to get one mre Q off.........delay on ult fixes that problem and so does removing his % heal and making it flat....his Q is the only thing wrong right now....
I agree in part, but I think now his ult is compared to a normal twitch skill.

I think if Rengar receive a buff on his q ability for evolution he would be balanced and fun again, without getting extremely op.

graciously


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Ezlang

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Junior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfavhunter View Post
actually rengars ult used to be instant stealth for about 3 patches after he was out, then they nerfed it to delayed
I thought his stealth always had a .75 second fade timer, even though it never said that in the tooltip. But regardless, with that short, non-variable delay, his ult was too good for running. There's no reason to make it instant.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezlang View Post
I thought his stealth always had a .75 second fade timer, even though it never said that in the tooltip. But regardless, with that short, non-variable delay, his ult was too good for running. There's no reason to make it instant.

actually it really didnt make it op, early on it was a tad irritating and its reasonable for the delay to be there, but its still very counter-able by placing a pink ward where you know he is going to run toward or oricles (similar to countering akali), and having any CC, even slows (phage, frozen mallet, exc. work well as well) used after that to prevent his escape from pink or oracles while he is bursted down, because MS means nothing to a decent slow, and many champions have that even without items

the real problem that was rengars ult, was it was effectively a pub stomper move, and noone wanted to learn to counter it properly

-edit: the counld make it so he loses his MS if struck by a direct attack for 1 second while in his ult to make it even more countered by anti stealth abilities (go go lee sin) / items, but the point being, his ult is only a true get out of gank free card even without a delay vs pub stoping


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-17-2013

the problem with rengars ultimate without a delay is it made ganking him without premeditated oricles or pink near impossable, which caused a lot of pub stomping rengars to get out free, if they removed the delay by level it still keeps the early level gank out of free card not a real option, but it also makes his team fight much weaker because its either ult before the fight starts, or dont use it at all because you will lose 3 seconds of dpsing for nothing more than beign able ot use his leap again and a ferocity bonus effect, which at decent item / build levels is a considerable dps loss because though you might get a good burst dps back, you lose the auto attacks because you lose your ult (and it goes on CD) if you AA while waiting for yourself to stealth


another solution is to simply make rengars ult function in combat a little different than out of combat, making it so if used when fighting, he gets 3-4 ferocity (which should give him close to another (f) power move) and he gains his passive for 3 seconds (consumed on leap) as if he was in a brush, but the point being his ult feels A LOT like twitches Q, and when your ultimate feels like a hinderance inside of a fight and is vastly similar to another characters lvl 1 access ability it tends to make the ability feel very UP

i'm not claiming to have 'the right answer' with this forum, but these are a collection of ideas, that could all help rengar without making him OP (given if all of these ideas were used he might get to strong, a suggestion is hoping for some if not at least one of the ideas to be used)


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-18-2013

bump for needed attention for rengar