how to fix rengar

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Weyen

Senior Member

02-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky Thing View Post
Rengar is fine. Stop trying to buff him.
Rengar's got the same problem as Karma, IMO. They both have "normal" moves that are buffed up to "amazing" moves once or twice per fight. So some people look at the "amazing" moves and say "they're fine" while other people look at the "normal" moves and think "they're underpowered", and they're both right.

I mean, you can look at his abilities when he's empowered, and he's pretty OP. He's got really good burst with Q, heals himself for a nice amount, has a snare, and on top of that he's a manaless champion who can just spam skills all day at no cost.

But then you look at his abilities with no ferocity, and he's got nothing really good. He's got a Q that's basically the same autoattack reset Wukong or Jax or any of those kinds of champs have. He's got a W that does almost no damage, and only makes him slightly tankier if he is sitting in an enemy's lap, and his E is a short range, not very powerful slow.

The OP's suggestions sound mostly good, but I'm worried that it will bring Rengar back into overpowered territory. Not because the changes themselves are super overpowered, but because they buff both his regular moves and his empowered moves, and I don't think he's underpowered when he has ferocity, currently. It's when he doesn't have ferocity that he's got problems.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyen View Post
Rengar's got the same problem as Karma, IMO. They both have "normal" moves that are buffed up to "amazing" moves once or twice per fight. So some people look at the "amazing" moves and say "they're fine" while other people look at the "normal" moves and think "they're underpowered", and they're both right.

I mean, you can look at his abilities when he's empowered, and he's pretty OP. He's got really good burst with Q, heals himself for a nice amount, has a snare, and on top of that he's a manaless champion who can just spam skills all day at no cost.

But then you look at his abilities with no ferocity, and he's got nothing really good. He's got a Q that's basically the same autoattack reset Wukong or Jax or any of those kinds of champs have. He's got a W that does almost no damage, and only makes him slightly tankier if he is sitting in an enemy's lap, and his E is a short range, not very powerful slow.

The OP's suggestions sound mostly good, but I'm worried that it will bring Rengar back into overpowered territory. Not because the changes themselves are super overpowered, but because they buff both his regular moves and his empowered moves, and I don't think he's underpowered when he has ferocity, currently. It's when he doesn't have ferocity that he's got problems.

they only empower move buff is the Q doing .2 more ad damage and W will also have the damage vs creeps bonus

everything else is either his normal play (non ferocity bonus), or making a very unfun mechanic more fun (aka his ult and item) without making those unfun mechanics op by making their utility better and not their +damage


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Dark Kuno

Senior Member

02-14-2013

There is nothing wrong with Rengar

The problem is that Riot released Kha'Zhix right after releasing Rengar. And Kha has a slightly superior kit with remarkably similar play style, and build optimization.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Kuno View Post
There is nothing wrong with Rengar

The problem is that Riot released Kha'Zhix right after releasing Rengar. And Kha has a slightly superior kit with remarkably similar play style, and build optimization.

actually the major problem is rengars damage as an 'early game' champion is lack luster, so he is being over punished for late game damage when his early game is not at the level of what is an early game champion, meaning he needs better late game scaling

and the last problem is rengars ultimate is unfun in the fact that it CANNOT be used in a fight to be benefitial

if he uses it in a fight he cannot attack for ~3 seconds or he loses his ult, he effectively is PUNISHED for using his ultimate in a fight, and the only part of 'delayed' stealth his ultimate should have is early game for lane gar to prevent the get out of gank free card that it was (and btw, pink wards are to expensive for ganking, when you know your gankign somewho one stealths... like twitch, akali, shaco.... pink wards to expensive)

my suggestion of delay decay per level is actually a valid and reasonable one, as are many of the other things i suggested, notice in the ONE spot i asked for something that would improve rengars damage ( the improved ad scaling on Q) i also stated that i was fine if there was a counter nerf to base damage to keep its early game damage the same

im not trying to make rengar op, im trying to make him viable, as a jungler, and as a champion, with also making his item worth something more than a 'already snowballing' item without it being a true damage bonus


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iMadeYouMadBro

Senior Member

02-14-2013

His Q needs to have an attack range modifier much like what they buffed to Wukong's Q


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Bamboo Worrior

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Rengar needs buff on level ups, When I was lv 13 I found my healt bar was only 1300, no wonder im so squishy.


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Kyuss

Senior Member

02-15-2013

I agree with these suggestions they need to do something about him he needs a bit more sustain to make a viable jungler again...

It's not too bad jungling with him at the moment but that 3 second delay really hurts his ganking potential.


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevsky View Post
I agree with these suggestions they need to do something about him he needs a bit more sustain to make a viable jungler again...

It's not too bad jungling with him at the moment but that 3 second delay really hurts his ganking potential.

the 3 seconds for ganking just means you have to premeditate to use it before you go in, the problem with the delay is laning and team fights, the delay should be there early on to prevent the get out of gank free card that it was, but later in the game when teamfights erupt his ult feels very very underpowered because of it, so making the delay decay with level makes it well balanced for both early and late game, which is why i think this is one of the best solutions for it


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Katanya

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Senior Member

02-15-2013

The guy actually needs to be nerfed. When he can hit 1500 basic attack theres something wrong. Hes broken. One shotting people isn't UP. Obviously you guys are doing something wrong.


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MacDagar

Member

02-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevsky View Post
It's not too bad jungling with him at the moment but that 3 second delay really hurts his ganking potential.
Why do people keep saying that it's a 3 second delay? It's 1 second unless he's taking damage (then it goes up to 3), so this doesn't really affect his ganking potential.


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