What's the deal with Sejuani?

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toasteros

Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
Sejuani is going to be the champion with the largest amount of crowd control on your team. Her ultimate is a textbook initiating ability. She is a tank. Why in the hell would you not initiate with her?
Her ultimate is best saved for when the enemy team uses their buffs, that way you shut down more damage keeping more people alive. And what I normally experience in team fights is people are spread out for the first few seconds then cluster together in the chaos, this is the best time to charge to hit the most people.


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AWildRaticate

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Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post

My problem with Sejuani is that her kit doesn't mesh very well; her W does very little damage unless you max it first, and if you have any hope of keeping up you need to max this first, otherwise your clearing speed will be excruciatingly slow. Slow clearing speed means falling behind in EXP and gold, which means you won't be tanky at all, which is very bad for Sejuani because her base HP and armour is abysmal for a tank. And contrary to what littala said, Sejuani is supposed to spearhead a charge and be in the middle of a fight. That's why her charge sets off her passive, that's why three of her skills do AoE damage around her. Be logical.

Another thing: If you max your W first, you won't be able to level up your E much for the first ~10 minutes of the game, which is when you should be ganking. Her E does a 30% slow at level 1, that's not enough, you can easily walk away from that. So your kit forces you decide between staying alive and having a sliver of chance to gank successfully. This is not ideal.
You max her E first. It hits hard as hell early game and has the biggest CC outside of her ult. In the jungle you take W, Q, E, then max E first, followed by W.

Also, I think Sej is fine, especially with the introduction of Liandry's. The thing that people don't understand about her is that she's basically the hypercarry of the tank world. Like a Vayne or Kog, her early game is very weak, but she scales off the map. If I jungle Sej and pick up a couple of early kill it's pretty much GG every time because once she gets ahead she's just an unkillable CC machine for the rest of the game.


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Blaze86420

Member

02-12-2013

It's like you didn't read my post at all, maxing your E first means you can't clear jungle as fast. If you're taking too long in the jungle those are ganks your team is missing out on. And don't be ridiculous, there's no such thing a hyper carry tank. With the terrible early-mid game Sejuani has you'll never be able to get enough gold to buy any items that will turn her into the powerhouse you're making her out to be. That's assuming you even get to late game at all.

I mean really, I highly doubt you read all of my post. I specifically said why maxing your E would be a gamble. Don't make assumptions that I haven't played Sejuani enough, I've tried leveling up E first. It was abysmal, jungle clearing was very slow. A 10 seconds cool-down ability that does a single burst of damage is not ideal for jungle clearing.


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Orbv

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Senior Member

02-12-2013

I know many people disagree, but I always max W first on sej. The slow and dmg from E is great if leveled up first, but like Blaze said, it only makes her jungling crippling. I think as long as you have 1 point in E, her ganks will be better than most. Since you are only shooting for a slow with Sej, for the most part, you want her ganks to hurt more than ultra slow and hope the laning champs clean up.

She is a late game jungler though. Don't expect big things at the start of any game, THOUGH she actually can because 10% slow is still enough to mess up a champ who didn't start with boots or is innately slow.

I think she's devastating. She can literally make it so assassins can't follow the carry close enough and her ult has pretty great range and explosion radius.


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Blaze86420

Member

02-12-2013

^That's my point though, there is no such thing as a "late game jungler". The laning phase ends long before the late game phase starts. There is no ganking in the late game because nobody is laning at that point, you're fighting as a team. Yeah her late game is strong when she's got one or two core items and levelled up most of her abilities, getting to that point is the the problem.


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LazyBeast

Junior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
Sanjuani's biggest issue IMO is that she does the same things as Amumu, but Amumu does it sooner in the game and hence basically better.

Sanjuani has a good kit for team fighting but lacks that innate tankiness that Amumu has in his tantrum and has only soft CC to Amumu's hard cc in bandage toss pre-6.
Their ults function basically exactly the same way, but Sanj gives them more time to respond for the trade off of a little harder CC.

But over all...Amumu is just a better version on Sanj.

Which makes Sanj not worth playing tbh...
I guess what all of you baddies are trying to say is that you are bad on sejuani. When in actuality she owns the jungle and can turn games around. She has high burst damage and tankiness. I love sejuani and she is my "go-to" jungle. Amumu is overrated and ive faced apposing mumu jungles where he ults his team dives in and then I ult. Too easy. Sejuani is underrated and secretly op. She does not need a nerf buff or any other change. I will be sad if she does


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LazyBeast

Junior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
^That's my point though, there is no such thing as a "late game jungler". The laning phase ends long before the late game phase starts. There is no ganking in the late game because nobody is laning at that point, you're fighting as a team. Yeah her late game is strong when she's got one or two core items and levelled up most of her abilities, getting to that point is the the problem.
I dont know why amyone would call her a late game jungle. My sej jungle usually secures first blood for me or my team. I gank feequently and if you dont believe in sejuani add me and I will change minds on this *****.


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AWildRaticate

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Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
It's like you didn't read my post at all, maxing your E first means you can't clear jungle as fast. If you're taking too long in the jungle those are ganks your team is missing out on. And don't be ridiculous, there's no such thing a hyper carry tank. With the terrible early-mid game Sejuani has you'll never be able to get enough gold to buy any items that will turn her into the powerhouse you're making her out to be. That's assuming you even get to late game at all.

I mean really, I highly doubt you read all of my post. I specifically said why maxing your E would be a gamble. Don't make assumptions that I haven't played Sejuani enough, I've tried leveling up E first. It was abysmal, jungle clearing was very slow. A 10 seconds cool-down ability that does a single burst of damage is not ideal for jungle clearing.

I did read all of your post, and I think you are wrong, no offense. I've played A LOT of jungle Sejuani, and generally have my way with the enemy team. I would say that if maxing W first works for you, then that's great, but it doesn't sound like it does work for you. Maxing E does work for me, very well, so you may want to give it another try.

The thing you seem to be missing here is that there are essentially two different kinds of junglers: farm junglers and gank junglers. Tank jungles are almost always gankers, not farmers. Shen has garbage clear times, far worse than Sejuani, but it still a great jungler to have for his utility. Sejuani is in the same class. Her clear times aren't as important as her ganks and you should be spending as much time as possible making the enemy team's life hell, farming only when there are no ganks available.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

02-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
If her charge was only meant for escaping and not initiating then why does it set off her passive? You know, the slow?
1- because the passive is a bonus for "W" jungle clearing
2- because it can be used for chasing not initiating (as in team fight)
3- because it can be used to clear minion waves in lane
4- because it can help you peel

Quote:
My problem with Sejuani is that her kit doesn't mesh very well; her W does very little damage unless you max it first, and if you have any hope of keeping up you need to max this first, otherwise your clearing speed will be excruciatingly slow.
I don't max W first, I max E first and I have no issues clearing, in fact I start red. Minor/lesser neutrals melt with 1 point in W and any bit of delay you get in the jungle isn't going to put you critically behind. I keep up just fine with max E first.

Quote:
Slow clearing speed means falling behind in EXP and gold,
Are you saying you can't clear jungle then hit the lesser camps again without more than 1 point in W? Because slow is sort of relative... you still need to wait for respawn, plus jungle shouldn't be your sole source of xp and gold unless you are not ganking at all.

Quote:
which means you won't be tanky at all, which is very bad for Sejuani because her base HP and armour is abysmal for a tank. And contrary to what littala said, Sejuani is supposed to spearhead a charge and be in the middle of a fight. That's why her charge sets off her passive, that's why three of her skills do AoE damage around her. Be logical.
Oh boy, "won't betanky at all"! Maybe your definition of "tanky" is damage soak. Honestly "tank" is more complex than that. Its a shame Riot still hasn't fixed this term.

Double, Oh boy, "Sejuani is supposed to spearhead a charge and be in the middle". You say its because of the AoE abilities. Q imo should be saved for peeling, saving a squishy, chasing survivors and escaping primarily. (Exceptions to every rule) I just briefly hit at some reasons this has Frost attached to it. The AoE does allow you to run next to an enemy if positioning or securing the kill for a carry is more important than the damage from the charge itself.

Yes W is an AoE but it has a range of 350 units and ticks for 6 seconds. How many player controlled enemies are going to sit bunched in a 350 unit area for you? Its for threat! To chew on squishies and control positioning! Not annihilate groups of enemies. These aura chewing abilities are primarily single target DoTs not group killers. No group is going to sit in a 350 unit circle around you for 6 seconds.

Your R. Are you seriously going to charge into the enemy before casting R? What happened to being logical? Sejuani has no sustain... zero sustain and her R has a primary of 2 second stun and a 1 second stun on secondaries but it gets blocked by bodies. Why would you close the gap taking damage and ruin angles of attack for your R? Sejuani should not spearhead... R should spearhead! Draw first 1/2 of first blood and control positioning.

E... you ant to call this around you because you can see a circle? Its the second 1/2 of first blood. Plus it controls positioning.

Now you can walk in firing up W with the bonus frost applied, the enemy team damaged and out of position. You still have Q to position or use as needed.

Why would you spearhead?

1- with no sustain (tanky damage soak steroid)
2- with an ultimate that has a range of over 1000 units + burst range
3- with an ulti that gets body blocked so close proximity reduces effectiveness
4- with an ability that feeds off of her innate and has a range of 1000
5- with the safest 1&2 initiation in the game
6- when you add 1 and 5 together it screams do not spearhead with your body.
7- when you can start a team fight with multiple first bloods
8- when you can dictate positioning of a battle.

Because of AoE?

Quote:
Another thing: If you max your W first, you won't be able to level up your E much for the first ~10 minutes of the game, which is when you should be ganking. Her E does a 30% slow at level 1, that's not enough, you can easily walk away from that. So your kit forces you decide between staying alive and having a sliver of chance to gank successfully. This is not ideal.
This is such an exaggeration. Plenty of players don't follow W first!

Quote:
There's nothing going for Sejuani besides her ultimate and Q. The slow from her E needs to be increased, that's the bare minimum for making Sejuani even remotely viable. Make the slow more effective at level 1, but have it scale less as you level up. It goes from 30 to 70 percent right now, make it 50 to 70 percent. I'm not sure if her W should do more damage, this risks making her both a fast clearing jungler and a good ganker, which would be OP. So buffing her E should be a good first step for now.
Just a sec... nothing going for Sejuani? All she needs is her mark from E fixed which they did. Now because of an overflow of players that think with only one mindset she is about to be dismantled unless a few of us can save her.

Your way may work for you, but I promise other ways work too. Knowing this and realising exceptions exist to rules and you may find out that she isn't as bad as you think and her kit works well.


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