@Riot - About one of your most iconic junglers...

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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

I think you run into a problem by giving consume too much damage though.

Like I said the spellvamp and consume interaction is already borderline broken. Then you have a whole mess of trouble with top or mid lane nunu.

Maybe just give it bonus damage to monsters? You still want to avoid a situation where consume does much more damage than a smite or it will be impossible to do anything once a nunu has you bullied off of a buff.

edit: spirit stone can't buff consume damage because consume damage is true damage. unless they change the damage type or the text of the ability to literally read "spirit stone increases this damage" it would be a very weird dynamic for nunu and only nunu.

edit2: I thought about it more and I'm still not 100% convinced that consume is the thing that needs buffs. He's in a really weird spot where he can currently solo baron at 15-20 minutes depending on his item progression. He basically just needs ninja tabi's and the spellvamp spirit stone upgrade then maybe one other tiny survivability item (either hp or armor). I'm not sure how early he can solo dragon, but it wouldn't shock me if it was something completely ridiculous like level 5. Any buffs to consume damage would likely need cooldown increases to compensate, or he'd be in a nightmarish place for your opponents.

I love jungle nunu to death. He was all I played in S2 during that craze where every game you were against a shyvana or a mundo trying to counterjungle you. I'm just not sure how he can exist in S3 jungle without screwing with his solo laning or his supporting. Jungle HP pools were just shifted around so much that it leaves him in a very awkward place.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

02-11-2013

bump


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Shadow Light M37

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Nocturne... The only Champ born to jungle.


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IplayforfunFU

Senior Member

02-11-2013

Maybe making consume worth ranking would be an option, maybe it can give a passive like extra damage from autoattacks to compensate for BB being nerfed something on the range

Something on the range of Cho vorpal strikes. but single target


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IplayforfunFU View Post
Maybe making consume worth ranking would be an option, maybe it can give a passive like extra damage from autoattacks to compensate for BB being nerfed something on the range

Something on the range of Cho vorpal strikes. but single target
You still fall into the problem where it would benefit lane nunu more than jungle nunu.

As I said, from riot's standpoint it's difficult to only target buffs that benefit jungle nunu without putting lane nunu or support nunu out of control. I like that lane nunu is an option as a very annoying counterpick to certain lanes, but I'd hate to see him every single game. If you give him more damage and more range, even slight, he'd be an utter nightmare to deal with.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Nunu was hurt by S3 changes?

this goes contrary to everything I have ever heard about S3 jungle.


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2pudge1cup

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02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
Nunu was hurt by S3 changes?

this goes contrary to everything I have ever heard about S3 jungle.
He lost his ability to quickly kill sigil camps while leaving the smaller things. The HP shift actually really hurt his counterjungling which is basically all he does well. He can still solo dragon/baron stupidly early, but that's kind of a gimmick. I mean if you have no map control by 20 minutes it doesn't matter if he can solo baron.


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Take the Draw

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
Nunu was hurt by S3 changes?

this goes contrary to everything I have ever heard about S3 jungle.
Nunu's single target jungle DPS actually isn't very high. It seemed that way in S2 because it was frontloaded and you could instantly kill most large creeps and then let your Consume CD recharge while you ran in between camps. Having to wait for your Consume CD twice on the same camp slows your clear speed drastically which is a big problem when you're in the enemy jungle. Hell, even when you're just doing your own blue buff/red buff you have to do this awkward thing where you run around in circles kiting the buff to wait for your Consume CD to come back up because your non-Consume damage won't kill it in time anyway. It was extra pathetic in the preseason when rank 1 Consume couldn't even one-shot the small lizards in the buff camps.

The one thing that's gotten easier I guess is that it's easier now to clean up the small minions in each camp. Obviously that's pretty much useless for counterjungling. And counterjungling is an inbuilt and essential part of Nunu's kit because you're investing in a spell that you can't use on players.


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SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Take the Draw View Post
Nunu's single target jungle DPS actually isn't very high. It seemed that way in S2 because it was frontloaded and you could instantly kill most large creeps and then let your Consume CD recharge while you ran in between camps. Having to wait for your Consume CD twice on the same camp slows your clear speed drastically which is a big problem when you're in the enemy jungle. Hell, even when you're just doing your own blue buff/red buff you have to do this awkward thing where you run around in circles kiting the buff to wait for your Consume CD to come back up because your non-Consume damage won't kill it in time anyway. It was extra pathetic in the preseason when rank 1 Consume couldn't even one-shot the small lizards in the buff camps.

The one thing that's gotten easier I guess is that it's easier now to clean up the small minions in each camp. Obviously that's pretty much useless for counterjungling. And counterjungling is an inbuilt and essential part of Nunu's kit because you're investing in a spell that you can't use on players.
Nunu may be one of the safest junglers in s3 - but his clear times....

I wasn't around for most of season 2, but I saw nunu once in a blue moon s1. S3 I see him supporting the adc regularly.... he doesn't offer enough to a team comp to use outside of support, he's just outclassed.


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2pudge1cup

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02-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSeCKSx View Post
Nunu may be one of the safest junglers in s3 - but his clear times....

I wasn't around for most of season 2, but I saw nunu once in a blue moon s1. S3 I see him supporting the adc regularly.... he doesn't offer enough to a team comp to use outside of support, he's just outclassed.
The thing is that in a 1v1 lane like mid or top he's still a complete handful to deal with early game. In some matchups he's a complete nightmare. What he offers to the team comp is being a lane bully that denies farm from that particular lane.

As a jungler he is also meant to be a bully. That's why his clear times are a bit irrelevant. He should just hit level 2 then be a bully. I'll admit though in S3 since he's lost that quick ability to deny a big wraith and then gtfo I can't really see myself picking him.

However, not sure if a lot of players know this, but he can solo baron early with close to no major items. He just has to dodge baron's magic damage and consume every CD. And that's in his current "weak" form.

IMO he needs adjustments to fit in to the new jungle, especially since they shifted hp around to be so heavy on just the sigil camps. I'm just not sure what those adjustments will be to not put his already ridiculous baron/dragon presence over the top or to not improve support/solo lane nunu. He might even need an ability rework, which I hate to say because I love the champ, and I love what he brings to the table.


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